Rather Polite of Him, Wouldn't You Say?
in [Cobol]
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From: LX-i on 19 Nov 2006 21:47 Pete Dashwood wrote: > > Although Doc thinks it was polite of the man to give himself up (and I > suppose, in a way, it was) it is just simple common sense in the long run. > > Besides, after seeing the hilarious incompetence of the cop on the scene, he > probably was too weak from laughing to make an escape...:-) He probably did it to save the innocent bystanders! :) -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ / \ / ~ Live from Montgomery, AL! ~ ~ / \/ o ~ ~ ~ / /\ - | ~ daniel(a)thebelowdomain ~ ~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.djs-consulting.com ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w$ ~ ~ !O M-- V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e ~ ~ h---- r+++ z++++ ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Who is more irrational? A man who believes in a God he doesn't see, or a man who's offended by a God he doesn't believe in?" - Brad Stine
From: HeyBub on 19 Nov 2006 22:49 docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote: >>>>> In general, however, we Texans encourage most people - not just the >>>> constabulary - to carry guns. "An armed society is a polite >>>> society" as the saying goes. >>> >>> That saying, of course, accounts for the *exquisite* politesse of >>> the Japanese... ummmm, the Chinese... ummmmm, the Swedes... oh >>> well, it accounts for the well-known politesse of Dodge City... >>> ummmmmm, Tombstone... ummmmm... hey, a lot of those 'sayings' are >>> just old wives' tales, anyhow. >> >> That is, if "A implies B" it is NOT the case that "B implies A." > > Not in the least... I made my attempts, noticed that a few of them > didn't fit and arrived at no conclusion; I believe that I've stated > before that ''implication' is in the mind of the beholder. Um, no. You said: "That saying, of course, accounts for the *exquisite* politesse [sic] of the Japanese..." Which sounds like a conclusion. It is, however, a false conclusion inasmuch as the Japanese are not well-armed. You might as well have said "Of course this explains why the Japanese like purple." > >> >> I'm afraid you've fallen into the trap of the fallacy of affirming >> the consequent. > > Your fears are obviously unjustified... but Being Cautious is a good > thing, or so some have said. Tombstone, AZ, USA during the period > between 1870 and 1900 was, by some standards, a rather well-armed > society; I do not recall it ever having been referred to as a 'polite > society'... and likewise for Dodge City... but perhaps we are using > different definitions; can you point to an example or two which might > bolster you assertions? It could be you don't travel in circles where politeness is discussed and therefore missed the reference. Or, it could be that the relative politeness of Tombstone et al need not be mentioned inasmuch as it is implied - by right-thinking people - in the "well-armed" description. Or it could be you just forgot you heard it. In any event, that you cannot recollect something is not a proof at all. > >> >> And, far from being an "old wive's tale" the expression came from >> Robert Heinlein, and old writer. > > Quite the sociologist, I've heard... do tell, where and when did he > do his field studies? Was there a particular methodolgy applied... > or did he just sit in a house-trailer and write Tall Tales? When an > opinion is bolstered by 'something I read in a novel' it might do > well to give it as much weight as an opinion bolstered by 'something > I saw in a movie'. Opinion bolstered by something read in a novel? That has nothing to do with whether an expression is an 'old wives tale?' That is, 'old wives tale' is usually defined as a) of unknown provenance, and b) wrong. Neither of which fit the assertion. As to Heinlein's methodology, he was (evidently) an observer of human nature with the ability to put common-sense observations in a succinct form. That was his gift. Scientific rigor can give us such silliness as man-made global warming, crop circles, and human-tracking-dinosaur (or vice-versa) footprints. Plus, if science gets in the way of a good story, something has to yield.
From: on 20 Nov 2006 05:37 In article <12m29epent1fv1d(a)news.supernews.com>, HeyBub <heybubNOSPAM(a)gmail.com> wrote: >docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote: >>>>>> In general, however, we Texans encourage most people - not just the >>>>> constabulary - to carry guns. "An armed society is a polite >>>>> society" as the saying goes. >>>> >>>> That saying, of course, accounts for the *exquisite* politesse of >>>> the Japanese... ummmm, the Chinese... ummmmm, the Swedes... oh >>>> well, it accounts for the well-known politesse of Dodge City... >>>> ummmmmm, Tombstone... ummmmm... hey, a lot of those 'sayings' are >>>> just old wives' tales, anyhow. >>> >>> That is, if "A implies B" it is NOT the case that "B implies A." >> >> Not in the least... I made my attempts, noticed that a few of them >> didn't fit and arrived at no conclusion; I believe that I've stated >> before that ''implication' is in the mind of the beholder. > >Um, no. You said: "That saying, of course, accounts for the *exquisite* >politesse [sic] of the Japanese... http://m-w.com/dictionary/politesse > >Which sounds like a conclusion. My apologies for the obscurity; it might have sounded like a conclusion were one to have stopped at the ellipsis... but that might be one of the reasons for my dislike of midsentence interruptions. Following that fragment were several other suggestions (ie, Chinese and Swedish), the intention of the ellipsis was a shorthand 'no, wait a moment, that's not quite right, let me try again'... in the fashion that one might say 'He gave very precise directions, he told me 'At the sign you take a right... a left... go straight ahead... well, it's around there, someplace.' >It is, however, a false conclusion inasmuch >as the Japanese are not well-armed. Now that's a curious point... so, if the Japanese are a society which is not well-armed and is polite. What's an example, then, of a society which is armed and nearly so polite? >You might as well have said "Of course >this explains why the Japanese like purple." When predilection towards color-schemes are discussed I just might do that, perhaps. >> >>> >>> I'm afraid you've fallen into the trap of the fallacy of affirming >>> the consequent. >> >> Your fears are obviously unjustified... but Being Cautious is a good >> thing, or so some have said. Tombstone, AZ, USA during the period >> between 1870 and 1900 was, by some standards, a rather well-armed >> society; I do not recall it ever having been referred to as a 'polite >> society'... and likewise for Dodge City... but perhaps we are using >> different definitions; can you point to an example or two which might >> bolster you assertions? > >It could be you don't travel in circles where politeness is discussed and >therefore missed the reference. Or, it could be that the relative politeness >of Tombstone et al need not be mentioned inasmuch as it is implied - by >right-thinking people - in the "well-armed" description. That would seem to be committing the logical fallacy of 'assuming the conclusion'... or using an entirely different definition of 'polite'. >Or it could be you >just forgot you heard it. In any event, that you cannot recollect something >is not a proof at all. That is why I asked for an example... second request, then: can you point to an example or two which might bolster your assertion that 'an armed society is a polite society'? > >> >>> >>> And, far from being an "old wive's tale" the expression came from >>> Robert Heinlein, and old writer. >> >> Quite the sociologist, I've heard... do tell, where and when did he >> do his field studies? Was there a particular methodolgy applied... >> or did he just sit in a house-trailer and write Tall Tales? When an >> opinion is bolstered by 'something I read in a novel' it might do >> well to give it as much weight as an opinion bolstered by 'something >> I saw in a movie'. > >Opinion bolstered by something read in a novel? That has nothing to do with >whether an expression is an 'old wives tale?' That is, 'old wives tale' is >usually defined as a) of unknown provenance, and b) wrong. Neither of which >fit the assertion. I'm sorry... according to http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein the saying is *attributed* to Heinlein, not sourced... and I'm still trying to find an example which proves it right. You've been asked twice now to supply at least one. DD
From: Pete Dashwood on 20 Nov 2006 06:17 "LX-i" <lxi0007(a)netscape.net> wrote in message news:c14d1$4561173c$454920f8$17624(a)KNOLOGY.NET... > Pete Dashwood wrote: >> >> Although Doc thinks it was polite of the man to give himself up (and I >> suppose, in a way, it was) it is just simple common sense in the long >> run. >> >> Besides, after seeing the hilarious incompetence of the cop on the scene, >> he probably was too weak from laughing to make an escape...:-) > > He probably did it to save the innocent bystanders! :) LOL! I hadn't thought of that... :-) Pete.
From: HeyBub on 20 Nov 2006 11:01
docdwarf(a)panix.com wrote: >> It is, however, a false conclusion inasmuch >> as the Japanese are not well-armed. > > Now that's a curious point... so, if the Japanese are a society which > is not well-armed and is polite. What's an example, then, of a > society which is armed and nearly so polite? Any of the southern states. We did not change our notions of civility after the recent conflict. > >> You might as well have said "Of course >> this explains why the Japanese like purple." > > When predilection towards color-schemes are discussed I just might do > that, perhaps. > >> Or it could be you >> just forgot you heard it. In any event, that you cannot recollect >> something is not a proof at all. > > That is why I asked for an example... second request, then: can you > point to an example or two which might bolster your assertion that > 'an armed society is a polite society'? Sure. My neighborhood. Mostly. > > I'm sorry... according to > http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein the saying is > *attributed* to Heinlein, not sourced... and I'm still trying to find > an example which proves it right. You've been asked twice now to > supply at least one. > Well, if Robert Heinlein DID NOT write the phrase, then it was written by someone else who, coincidentally, was also named Robert Heinlein. |