Refilling HP22 cart - magenta problems
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From: TJ on 9 Jul 2010 08:24 On 07/08/2010 08:18 PM, Joel wrote: > TJ<TJ(a)noneofyour.business> wrote: > >> Try searching on Ebay for a "genuine HP 22" cartridge. You'll often find >> new carts at something like half-price that are stale-dated a little, >> but still sealed so they are probably OK. They are most likely shelf >> pulls that didn't sell before they ran out of time. Avoid those that >> don't say they are still sealed. >> >> Of course there are no guarrantees, but I've purchased some (another >> number) for my printers that have been just fine. > > No, you don't want to pay 1/2 price for the refilled or remanuactured > catridge which should be around 10-15% of regular price. And we are talking > about the *refillable* ink catriage which you can refill almost forever > without having problem with the sponge which will lose the capacity after > few refills. > > Again, I don't own any HP to know much about it, but I have been refilling > Epson ink catriage for many years. And with the regular cartridge with > sponge I will have to replace the catriage after around 3-4 refills. And I > only paid around $2 - $2.50 per refilled catridge (3rd party cartridge). > > Now, with the refillable cartridge it may cost me around 20-30 cents per > cartridge. I owned a couple of Epsons once, but that was several years ago. They kept clogging up on me if I didn't print something at least twice a week. And yes, I did get Arthur's cleaning instructions. They helped, but still the printers clogged if I didn't print often enough. Those Epsons used a permanent print head, and the carts were just tanks to hold the ink. I used to buy aftermarket black carts for a dollar or so US, and color for around $2.50. But having the print head as part of the cart makes HP carts much more difficult to reverse-engineer, even shoving the patent issues aside. That makes the refilled ones more expensive than the Epson carts. Even so, refilled/remanufactured HP carts are all over the place, and at cheaper than "half-price." But the problem is that the quality varies tremendously, because some remanufacturers refill carts again and again, and those heads only last so long. Sometimes they work OK, and sometimes they don't. And even those vendors who say they'll replace a failed cart will only do that so many times. Trust me on this. With an "expired" cart, you're getting an unused print head. It's unlikely to fail after two or three photos, as some refilled carts have done for me. I haven't had a bad expired cart yet, but one or two of those refilled carts were bad out of the box. Changing vendors didn't help, either. On a per-page basis, they cost me MUCH more than new carts would have, let alone expired ones. I refill my own carts until they fail, but when it's time for replacements I won't buy any more remanufactured HP carts. They cost too much. TJ -- Life isn't fair. It's not meant to be. Overcoming the disadvantages we face is what makes us strong.
From: DJT on 9 Jul 2010 19:42 On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 20:33:45 -0400, Adam <adam(a)address.invalid> wrote: >Joel wrote: >> Again, I don't own any HP to know much about it, but I have been refilling >> Epson ink cartridge for many years. > >Thanks again for all your advice, Joel! As I understand it, Epson >inkjets have a permanent printhead and the cartridges contain only >ink. However, HP cartridges include the printhead. I'm told that >the printhead (at least on an HP cartridge) isn't durable enough to >last beyond at most ten refills, so even with refilling an HP >cartridge will eventually wear out. > >Adam I have been refilling HP Cartridges for many years (HP DJ 5160) HP 56 & 57 Cartridges. I always start putting ink in a cartridge when it is half used. If I wait until it runs out one or more of the colors wont work after refilling I usually lose the cartridge because it ran out of ink by mistake or if I manage to refill at correct time the print starts to get thicker as the print head wears out. The cartridge is thown out when print quality has deteriorated enough to warrant it. DJT
From: Adam on 9 Jul 2010 20:23 DJT wrote: > I have been refilling HP Cartridges for many years (HP DJ 5160) HP 56 > & 57 Cartridges. I think my parents' DJ5150 uses those too. Mine is a cheap DJ D1430, thrown in free when I bought the computer, and uses the HP 21 & 22, but I suppose the principles are the same. > I always start putting ink in a cartridge when it is half used. > If I wait until it runs out one or more of the colors wont work after > refilling Thanks! I can see I'd better start doing that too. I assume you're determining "half used" by the value onscreen, although that could be misleading if one of the colors has been used a lot more than the others. Maybe I'm using more magenta, although my previous (Canon) inkjet used separate cartridges for the three colors and they all ran out at about the same time. > The cartridge is thrown out when print quality has deteriorated enough > to warrant it. What are the signs of deterioration? And is there a rough figure for number of refills per cartridge? Thanks for your very helpful advice! Adam
From: Adam on 10 Jul 2010 13:11 Joel wrote: >> As I understand it, Epson >> inkjets have a permanent printhead and the cartridges contain only >> ink. However, HP cartridges include the printhead. I'm told that >> the printhead (at least on an HP cartridge) isn't durable enough to >> last beyond at most ten refills, so even with refilling an HP >> cartridge will eventually wear out. > > Yes, that's one of the differences between printer manufactures. And if > they have the refillable ink cartridge then they should have the printhead > too. So far, I've only located one source for refillable HP 21/22 cartridges, and they look like they contain the printhead. That's at: http://szmicrotec.en.alibaba.com/product/268355096-50040455/Refillable_Inkjet_Cartridge_for_HP_21_22.html if anyone's interested. (Anyone know of any other sources?) They want US $18.50 for a set of both, if you buy a carton of 50 sets, and they don't have a reseller in the US. Even if I could buy "only" 10 sets, that would still be around $200 for a product that I didn't know the quality of. If I could buy one set and it worked well, then maybe I'd consider buying more, but $200 is more than I can afford to risk on an untried product. (Another question, of course, is how long this cheap DJ D1430 is likely to last.) > And I do think the printhead is a questionable > > 1. Do they have the printhead? > > 2. If they do, then do they make their own or remanufacturing HP's original > printhead? Yes, definitely a questionable. I'd /hope/ they'd make their own longer-lasting ones, because I don't see how a remanufactured HP printhead could last any longer than an original printhead. But if they do make their own, how does print quality compare with an HP printhead? > About HP's original printhead. It's possible that HP makes a cheap > printhead that only last for so many print, comparing to the permanent > printhead which would last forever (until blogging or other part wear out). Well, that's what some folks in this NG have said. My previous inkjet was a Canon i550, which had a permanent printhead which was still working seven years later, when I scrapped the printer for other reasons. The OEM cartridges contained only ink and a sponge, and were considerably cheaper than the HP 21/22. For example, for both I paid about US $13 for a black cartridge, but the Canon had something like 27 ml of black ink (according to the box), while the HP has 5 ml. > I mean that the regular printhead can last that long, or I don't think it > will be grinding on paper to wear out. Yes, obviously it /can/, if it's designed to, although the permanent ones seem to have a tendency to clog if not used for a while. The HP printheads are clearly not designed to last that long. Meanwhile I'm trying to save money by using the HP Color LaserJet 5/5M (ca. 1997) for most of my printouts. It has numerous disadvantages, but two major advantages: cost per page is almost negligible (and cost of comsumables thru eBay is extremely low), and the thing is built to last almost forever. Thanks again, Joel, for all your help and advice with this! Adam
From: Adam on 14 Jul 2010 20:24
Joel wrote: >> There seem to be fewer options for the HP 21/22 than some other HP >> cartridges, maybe because the 21/22 are used in lower-end printers >> that the owner isn't as likely to put extra money into. > > I think the 21/22 is not popular because of the tri-color cartridge that > they don't think they can sell lot of them. And it seems most of the CISS > uses the original 21/22 cartridge And, as I learned here, the printheads in HP cartridges don't last too long. >> What would happen if I were to refill the cartridge with as much ink >> as it could hold? > > In general, the printer can't tell how much ink in the cartridge but it > calculate the ink status by number of print. Which mean the refillable > cartridge (without sponge) will hold much more ink, and the ink level would > be higher then the printer report. > > And if it comes with a working auto-reset (the chip will auto-reset to > full at ##%) then you can refill whenever you feel like. But the problem is, if the cartridge actually runs out of ink, the printhead will probably burn out, so I'd have to refill often enough to keep that from happening. The cartridges sold by HP don't have auto-reset of course, but I know how to manually reset the counter. One method involves covering certain contacts with tape, the other is cycling through two other cartridges as the printer only remembers the last two cartridge serial numbers. > Since HP doesn't have permanent printhead like Epson then you should have > much less to worry about. IOW, if I don't worry about my Epson then you > wouldn't worry more than I do. Yes, that's very true. I can try just about anything, because replacing a wrecked printhead is trivial. > P.S. Now I wonder if you can use a small hook to pull the sponge out of the > original cartridge to make it spongeless? > > May be drilling a larger hole then seal the hole using Plastic Welder > (welding)? Or maybe separating the top from the rest of the cartridge. Thanks again! Adam |