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From: Michael Kellett on 8 Jul 2010 12:46

"AM" <thisthatandtheother(a)beherenow.org> wrote in message
news:c8ub361m27gdmiahm4qvhkdfn4t9m5nucn(a)4ax.com...
> On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:37:37 GMT, zekfrivo(a)zekfrivolous.com (GregS)
> wrote:
>
>> will not work with current crossover to the built
>>in tweeter inside the woofer.
>
> I would never consider even buying such a driver, much less considering
> one to be actually worth "several thousand dollars".
>
> What a sad choice to have made for a system to begin with.
>
> How some dope injected an integrated driver arrangement like that into
> the "audiophile realm" is beyond me, if that is what this guy thinks he
> is.
>
> Everyone (the industry) knows that segregated drivers for different
> segments of the human audible spectrum is best. None of the real makers
> use such a paradigm as integrating two 'bands' of said spectrum into a
> single driver.
>
> Jeez... this isn't car audio. There is no need to attempt to
> consolidate space. Several thousand dollars indeed.
>
> I should send a bill for several thousand dollars for giving the
> advice. Ha!

Before you get too carried away try Googling "Tannoy Dual Concentric" so at
least you know a little more about the technology you are denigrating.

I once had a pair of Tannoy Ardens (15" Dual Concentric driver) and they
were probably the best sounding speakers I've ever had (including the Quad
Electrostatics and the Spendor BC2s. Then I grew up (damn!) and had to spend
my money on feeding the kids etc.

(mind you $5k seems steep - I paid �400 for the Ardens (pair in cabinets)
but it was in about 1975.)

Michael Kellett


From: AM on 8 Jul 2010 13:43
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:46:12 +0100, "Michael Kellett" <nospam(a)nospam.com>
wrote:

>
>"AM" <thisthatandtheother(a)beherenow.org> wrote in message
>news:c8ub361m27gdmiahm4qvhkdfn4t9m5nucn(a)4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:37:37 GMT, zekfrivo(a)zekfrivolous.com (GregS)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> will not work with current crossover to the built
>>>in tweeter inside the woofer.
>>
>> I would never consider even buying such a driver, much less considering
>> one to be actually worth "several thousand dollars".
>>
>> What a sad choice to have made for a system to begin with.
>>
>> How some dope injected an integrated driver arrangement like that into
>> the "audiophile realm" is beyond me, if that is what this guy thinks he
>> is.
>>
>> Everyone (the industry) knows that segregated drivers for different
>> segments of the human audible spectrum is best. None of the real makers
>> use such a paradigm as integrating two 'bands' of said spectrum into a
>> single driver.
>>
>> Jeez... this isn't car audio. There is no need to attempt to
>> consolidate space. Several thousand dollars indeed.
>>
>> I should send a bill for several thousand dollars for giving the
>> advice. Ha!
>
>Before you get too carried away try Googling "Tannoy Dual Concentric" so at
>least you know a little more about the technology you are denigrating.
>
>I once had a pair of Tannoy Ardens (15" Dual Concentric driver) and they
>were probably the best sounding speakers I've ever had (including the Quad
>Electrostatics and the Spendor BC2s. Then I grew up (damn!) and had to spend
>my money on feeding the kids etc.
>
>(mind you $5k seems steep - I paid �400 for the Ardens (pair in cabinets)
>but it was in about 1975.)
>
>Michael Kellett
>

Still not impressed.

Besides, the cabinets mean more to the sound than the drivers.

If one is spending several thousand dollars each for a driver, one
would think that one would spend a bit more time deciding what value,
quality, durability, etc. matters.

Looks to me as if the cone 'assembly' has more mass than a normal
driver, and that has to hit it in the low end, where this driver matters.
From: GregS on 8 Jul 2010 14:05
In article <c8ub361m27gdmiahm4qvhkdfn4t9m5nucn(a)4ax.com>, AM <thisthatandtheother(a)beherenow.org> wrote:
>On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:37:37 GMT, zekfrivo(a)zekfrivolous.com (GregS)
>wrote:
>
>> will not work with current crossover to the built
>>in tweeter inside the woofer.
>
> I would never consider even buying such a driver, much less considering
>one to be actually worth "several thousand dollars".
>
> What a sad choice to have made for a system to begin with.
>
> How some dope injected an integrated driver arrangement like that into
>the "audiophile realm" is beyond me, if that is what this guy thinks he
>is.
>
> Everyone (the industry) knows that segregated drivers for different
>segments of the human audible spectrum is best. None of the real makers
>use such a paradigm as integrating two 'bands' of said spectrum into a
>single driver.

Best for what. Some very best electrostatics cover all above 100 Hz.
Some real makers DO use a single mechanism, and for good reason.
Single mechanisms require more engineering, and more money.

> Jeez... this isn't car audio. There is no need to attempt to
>consolidate space. Several thousand dollars indeed.
>
> I should send a bill for several thousand dollars for giving the
>advice. Ha!

We are preserving spacial imaging and phase coherence even off center.

I see Celestion makes a 12 inch model but I don't see a 15.
http://professional.celestion.com/pro/pdf/TF1225CX.pdf

greg
From: GregS on 8 Jul 2010 14:08
In article <hc3c36tpmlbn6598jbhcv2n4gl7c2o2hu5(a)4ax.com>, AM <thisthatandtheother(a)beherenow.org> wrote:
>On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:46:12 +0100, "Michael Kellett" <nospam(a)nospam.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"AM" <thisthatandtheother(a)beherenow.org> wrote in message
>>news:c8ub361m27gdmiahm4qvhkdfn4t9m5nucn(a)4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:37:37 GMT, zekfrivo(a)zekfrivolous.com (GregS)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> will not work with current crossover to the built
>>>>in tweeter inside the woofer.
>>>
>>> I would never consider even buying such a driver, much less considering
>>> one to be actually worth "several thousand dollars".
>>>
>>> What a sad choice to have made for a system to begin with.
>>>
>>> How some dope injected an integrated driver arrangement like that into
>>> the "audiophile realm" is beyond me, if that is what this guy thinks he
>>> is.
>>>
>>> Everyone (the industry) knows that segregated drivers for different
>>> segments of the human audible spectrum is best. None of the real makers
>>> use such a paradigm as integrating two 'bands' of said spectrum into a
>>> single driver.
>>>
>>> Jeez... this isn't car audio. There is no need to attempt to
>>> consolidate space. Several thousand dollars indeed.
>>>
>>> I should send a bill for several thousand dollars for giving the
>>> advice. Ha!
>>
>>Before you get too carried away try Googling "Tannoy Dual Concentric" so at
>>least you know a little more about the technology you are denigrating.
>>
>>I once had a pair of Tannoy Ardens (15" Dual Concentric driver) and they
>>were probably the best sounding speakers I've ever had (including the Quad
>>Electrostatics and the Spendor BC2s. Then I grew up (damn!) and had to spend
>>my money on feeding the kids etc.
>>
>>(mind you $5k seems steep - I paid �400 for the Ardens (pair in cabinets)
>>but it was in about 1975.)
>>
>>Michael Kellett
>>
>
> Still not impressed.
>
> Besides, the cabinets mean more to the sound than the drivers.
>
> If one is spending several thousand dollars each for a driver, one
>would think that one would spend a bit more time deciding what value,
>quality, durability, etc. matters.
>
> Looks to me as if the cone 'assembly' has more mass than a normal
>driver, and that has to hit it in the low end, where this driver matters.

Normal what. High mass means lower response.
Efficiency is not as important as lower response.

greg

From: Robert Baer on 8 Jul 2010 14:42
AM wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:37:37 GMT, zekfrivo(a)zekfrivolous.com (GregS)
> wrote:
>
>> will not work with current crossover to the built
>> in tweeter inside the woofer.
>
> I would never consider even buying such a driver, much less considering
> one to be actually worth "several thousand dollars".
>
> What a sad choice to have made for a system to begin with.
>
> How some dope injected an integrated driver arrangement like that into
> the "audiophile realm" is beyond me, if that is what this guy thinks he
> is.
>
> Everyone (the industry) knows that segregated drivers for different
> segments of the human audible spectrum is best. None of the real makers
> use such a paradigm as integrating two 'bands' of said spectrum into a
> single driver.
>
> Jeez... this isn't car audio. There is no need to attempt to
> consolidate space. Several thousand dollars indeed.
>
> I should send a bill for several thousand dollars for giving the
> advice. Ha!
"Everyone knows" is a clue that someone is a liar.
Lemme see: take the sound of a tuba or cello; SINGLE source, NOT
sound spectrum broken up into "segments".
Just _try_ to faithfully reproduce the sound from one of those (or
other sources) with that scatter "system" that "everyone knows" is best..

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