Prev: Speeding up thermalization -- practical?
Next: Core power handling Capability
From: John B on 29 Apr 2010 07:46
In article <b38it5pq6nopcj7a55h04ba2el366ffl3d(a)4ax.com>, quiettechblue(a)yahoo.com says...
>
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:53:36 -0500, "George Jefferson"
> <phreon111(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I have an old keyboard that uses floppy to hold its os. It takes about 3
> >mins to fully load if that. Also the disk can become corrupt overtime.
> >
> >I was thinking of replacing the floppy with a ssd type of system. What I'm
> >thinking is possible is to "hijack" the floppy interface cable and simulate
> >a floppy disk but provide a faster system. Essentially emulating the floppy
> >disk protocol, which I imagine it uses some existing standard, but reading
> >off a ssd/eeprom.
> >
> >Am I on the right track? Here the biggest problem is probably getting the
> >protocol correct and the electronics would be rather simple? Probably can be
> >done with a pic and not much more...
> >
>
> Doable, yes. I doubt that you can improve speed without rebuilding the
> whole keyboard. To start with, the speed coming off the floppy is very
> limited. What is the floppy controller IC if any? The boot routines are
> based around floppy read physical performance and are basically just a
> track/sector/head block reader.

Why build when you can buy it off the shelf?

http://www.ipcas.com/download/products/usb-floppy/usb-floppy-emulation-manual.pdf
From: JosephKK on 29 Apr 2010 10:04
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 14:01:23 GMT, nico(a)puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote:

>John Tserkezis <jt(a)techniciansyndrome.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Adrian C wrote:
>>
>>> On 25/04/2010 03:53, George Jefferson wrote:
>>>> I have an old keyboard that uses floppy to hold its os. It takes about 3
>>>> mins to fully load if that. Also the disk can become corrupt overtime.
>>
>>> Ah, Musical keyboard. I was initially puzzling over what computer
>>> keyboard would have such a need.
>>
>>>> I was thinking of replacing the floppy with a ssd type of system. What
>>>> I'm thinking is possible is to "hijack" the floppy interface cable and
>>>> simulate a floppy disk but provide a faster system. Essentially
>>>> emulating the floppy disk protocol, which I imagine it uses some
>>>> existing standard, but reading off a ssd/eeprom.
>>
>>> How about trying a SmartMedia flash card and one of these -
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FlashPath
>>
>> This won't work, as it needs drivers installed first. I'm guessing
>>since the FDD is the only data storage interface available, this isn't
>>going to be an option.
>>
>>
>> On the little reading I've done so far, the situation can get quite
>>complex. There ARE floppy interfaces that supply USB, or CF flash
>>replacement storage devices, however, they are priced quite expensively,
>>from what I've read $500-$1000+ US, depending on features.
>>
>> Also, I've read one person who had a similar problem with a musical
>>keyboard, where replacing the FDD with a standard PC model did not fix
>>the problem. True, we don't know if the problem wasn't with the disk,
>>however, there WERE various supplies of FDDs that appeared the same on
>>the outside, but the interface was at least a little different.
>
>There are many ways an FDD can be controlled. Older floppy drives
>usually have many jumpers to accomodate different controllers.

Interesting, i don't remember that. Maybe that was from the IMSAI, MITS
and Cromenco era. I do remember that the Apple II and early Macs did
weird things.
From: Grant on 29 Apr 2010 10:25
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 12:46:13 +0100, John B <zen187315(a)zen.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <b38it5pq6nopcj7a55h04ba2el366ffl3d(a)4ax.com>, quiettechblue(a)yahoo.com says...
>>
>> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:53:36 -0500, "George Jefferson"
>> <phreon111(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I have an old keyboard that uses floppy to hold its os. It takes about 3
>> >mins to fully load if that. Also the disk can become corrupt overtime.
>> >
>> >I was thinking of replacing the floppy with a ssd type of system. What I'm
>> >thinking is possible is to "hijack" the floppy interface cable and simulate
>> >a floppy disk but provide a faster system. Essentially emulating the floppy
>> >disk protocol, which I imagine it uses some existing standard, but reading
>> >off a ssd/eeprom.
>> >
>> >Am I on the right track? Here the biggest problem is probably getting the
>> >protocol correct and the electronics would be rather simple? Probably can be
>> >done with a pic and not much more...
>> >
>>
>> Doable, yes. I doubt that you can improve speed without rebuilding the
>> whole keyboard. To start with, the speed coming off the floppy is very
>> limited. What is the floppy controller IC if any? The boot routines are
>> based around floppy read physical performance and are basically just a
>> track/sector/head block reader.
>
>Why build when you can buy it off the shelf?
>
>http://www.ipcas.com/download/products/usb-floppy/usb-floppy-emulation-manual.pdf

Pity they don't do a half height unit :(

Grant.
--
http://bugs.id.au/
From: JosephKK on 30 Apr 2010 00:04
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 12:46:13 +0100, John B <zen187315(a)zen.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <b38it5pq6nopcj7a55h04ba2el366ffl3d(a)4ax.com>, quiettechblue(a)yahoo.com says...
>>
>> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:53:36 -0500, "George Jefferson"
>> <phreon111(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I have an old keyboard that uses floppy to hold its os. It takes about 3
>> >mins to fully load if that. Also the disk can become corrupt overtime.
>> >
>> >I was thinking of replacing the floppy with a ssd type of system. What I'm
>> >thinking is possible is to "hijack" the floppy interface cable and simulate
>> >a floppy disk but provide a faster system. Essentially emulating the floppy
>> >disk protocol, which I imagine it uses some existing standard, but reading
>> >off a ssd/eeprom.
>> >
>> >Am I on the right track? Here the biggest problem is probably getting the
>> >protocol correct and the electronics would be rather simple? Probably can be
>> >done with a pic and not much more...
>> >
>>
>> Doable, yes. I doubt that you can improve speed without rebuilding the
>> whole keyboard. To start with, the speed coming off the floppy is very
>> limited. What is the floppy controller IC if any? The boot routines are
>> based around floppy read physical performance and are basically just a
>> track/sector/head block reader.
>
>Why build when you can buy it off the shelf?
>
>http://www.ipcas.com/download/products/usb-floppy/usb-floppy-emulation-manual.pdf

Handy when it works. OPs situation has the earmarks of when it won't.
Just fer an example, try that for an Apple II and see where it gets you.
From: Mark Zenier on 30 Apr 2010 15:58
In article <uilkt51s0p5mv8skhfaonih61si7fs6164(a)4ax.com>,
JosephKK <quiettechblue(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 12:46:13 +0100, John B <zen187315(a)zen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Why build when you can buy it off the shelf?
>>
>>http://www.ipcas.com/download/products/usb-floppy/usb-floppy-emulation-manual.pdf
>
>Handy when it works. OPs situation has the earmarks of when it won't.
>Just fer an example, try that for an Apple II and see where it gets you.

Straw man. You couldn't plug it in, anyway.

Apple II's used a non-standard interface. (A 16 pin DIP plug flatcable,
as I remember). They stripped the standard electronics and used their
own PC board. Instead of step and direction, they had the stepper motor
drive lines, and didn't bother with the index pulse. And recorded
with some Group Code instead of FM, which got them an extra 20k bytes
per disk. Actually, as it was almost all in software, different codes
were used by various game vendors for "copy protection".

And they charged $100 more per drive than the standard ones. Charging you
more for less, and make it deliberatly incompatible is a long tradition
at Apple.

Still, if you to took into account that some disk drivers would half
step the track motor (more copy protection), you should theoretically be
able to build a virtual disk, but it would probably be something like a
(my guess) 20 MHz logic analyzer/arb waveform recorder, that could step
between various track records.


Mark Zenier mzenier(a)eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

First  |  Prev  | 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Prev: Speeding up thermalization -- practical?
Next: Core power handling Capability