Replacing floppy
in [Design]
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From: George Jefferson on 24 Apr 2010 22:53 I have an old keyboard that uses floppy to hold its os. It takes about 3 mins to fully load if that. Also the disk can become corrupt overtime. I was thinking of replacing the floppy with a ssd type of system. What I'm thinking is possible is to "hijack" the floppy interface cable and simulate a floppy disk but provide a faster system. Essentially emulating the floppy disk protocol, which I imagine it uses some existing standard, but reading off a ssd/eeprom. Am I on the right track? Here the biggest problem is probably getting the protocol correct and the electronics would be rather simple? Probably can be done with a pic and not much more...
From: Jan Panteltje on 25 Apr 2010 06:44 On a sunny day (Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:53:36 -0500) it happened "George Jefferson" <phreon111(a)gmail.com> wrote in <hr0arr$64l$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>: >I have an old keyboard that uses floppy to hold its os. It takes about 3 >mins to fully load if that. Also the disk can become corrupt overtime. > >I was thinking of replacing the floppy with a ssd type of system. What I'm >thinking is possible is to "hijack" the floppy interface cable and simulate >a floppy disk but provide a faster system. Essentially emulating the floppy >disk protocol, which I imagine it uses some existing standard, but reading >off a ssd/eeprom. > >Am I on the right track? Here the biggest problem is probably getting the >protocol correct and the electronics would be rather simple? Probably can be >done with a pic and not much more... Yes that should be possible. Floppies consist of cylinders with n sectors on it. Common cylinder numbers are 40, 80, with 8 to 10 sectors per cylinder The interface is serial data line, an an up/down (direction) line, and a step pulse. The step pulse increases or decreases the cylinder number (moves the head in or outwards). Then there is a 'track zero' feedback signal, so the system can calibrate itself. This is all easy to make with a PIC. The serial protocol is either MFM or FM, NRZ code, with CRC added for each sector. there is also a sector number. For writing there is also a write pre-compensation. For reading you will need to regenerate the clock and data from the data stream. Data rate is perhaps 500 kbps, maybe slower. Then there were single sided and double sided floppies, so there is a 'side select signal'. I guess o n 64 MHz PIC perhaps you can bitbang / decode the serial stream, have not tried. A shift register (serial to parallel) would speed up things. Would be interesting project. Maybe use a real floppy controller (8272A ?) and interface that to a PIC. I likely would do it that way. Then with all that work, toss the thing in the trash and buy something modern?
From: J.A. Legris on 25 Apr 2010 08:45 On Apr 24, 10:53 pm, "George Jefferson" <phreon...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I have an old keyboard that uses floppy to hold its os. It takes about 3 > mins to fully load if that. Also the disk can become corrupt overtime. > > I was thinking of replacing the floppy with a ssd type of system. What I'm > thinking is possible is to "hijack" the floppy interface cable and simulate > a floppy disk but provide a faster system. Essentially emulating the floppy > disk protocol, which I imagine it uses some existing standard, but reading > off a ssd/eeprom. > > Am I on the right track? Here the biggest problem is probably getting the > protocol correct and the electronics would be rather simple? Probably can be > done with a pic and not much more... What model of keyboard is it? -- Joe
From: Adrian C on 25 Apr 2010 08:45 On 25/04/2010 03:53, George Jefferson wrote: > I have an old keyboard that uses floppy to hold its os. It takes about 3 > mins to fully load if that. Also the disk can become corrupt overtime. Ah, Musical keyboard. I was initially puzzling over what computer keyboard would have such a need. > I was thinking of replacing the floppy with a ssd type of system. What > I'm thinking is possible is to "hijack" the floppy interface cable and > simulate a floppy disk but provide a faster system. Essentially > emulating the floppy disk protocol, which I imagine it uses some > existing standard, but reading off a ssd/eeprom. > How about trying a SmartMedia flash card and one of these - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FlashPath -- Adrian C
From: John Tserkezis on 25 Apr 2010 09:22 Adrian C wrote: > On 25/04/2010 03:53, George Jefferson wrote: >> I have an old keyboard that uses floppy to hold its os. It takes about 3 >> mins to fully load if that. Also the disk can become corrupt overtime. > Ah, Musical keyboard. I was initially puzzling over what computer > keyboard would have such a need. >> I was thinking of replacing the floppy with a ssd type of system. What >> I'm thinking is possible is to "hijack" the floppy interface cable and >> simulate a floppy disk but provide a faster system. Essentially >> emulating the floppy disk protocol, which I imagine it uses some >> existing standard, but reading off a ssd/eeprom. > How about trying a SmartMedia flash card and one of these - > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FlashPath This won't work, as it needs drivers installed first. I'm guessing since the FDD is the only data storage interface available, this isn't going to be an option. On the little reading I've done so far, the situation can get quite complex. There ARE floppy interfaces that supply USB, or CF flash replacement storage devices, however, they are priced quite expensively, from what I've read $500-$1000+ US, depending on features. Also, I've read one person who had a similar problem with a musical keyboard, where replacing the FDD with a standard PC model did not fix the problem. True, we don't know if the problem wasn't with the disk, however, there WERE various supplies of FDDs that appeared the same on the outside, but the interface was at least a little different. It would be wise to suggest really cheap options, as it would be rather wasteful on the wallet otherwise.
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