SQL compatibility reminder: MySQL vs PostgreSQL
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From: Robert Haas on 5 Mar 2010 12:42 2010/3/5 François Pérou <francois.perou(a)free.fr>: > * I am very surprised by the SQL level of Php developers. The example > Drupal developers trying to rewrite SQL queries dynamically adding > DISTINCT clause is just an example. So don't expect them to understand > the difference between MySQL and PostgreSQL. It is out of reach. They > focuse on Php code. I think you're still missing the point. I am sorry that the Drupal developers (at least in your opinion) do not understand the difference between MySQL and PostgreSQL, but I don't feel like it's our problem to fix that. As far as I can tell, no promiment member of this community agrees with any of the changes you are proposing. I have a certain feeling of deja vu about this whole conversation: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2009-08/msg01491.php http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2009-08/msg01500.php http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2009-08/msg01494.php http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2009-08/msg01495.php http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2009-08/msg01492.php ....Robert -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers(a)postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
From: Andrew Dunstan on 5 Mar 2010 12:46 François Pérou wrote: > > I believe that PostgreSQL should support more MySQLisms in order to BEAT > MySQL. > > > Our aim is not to beat MySQL. At least mine is not, and I don't think I'm alone. Many of the MySQLisms you want supported are just broken behaviour, in the view of many people. So you are not going to win arguments using this line of reasoning, IMNSHO. cheers andrew -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers(a)postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
From: Alastair Turner on 5 Mar 2010 12:52 2010/3/5 François Pérou <francois.perou(a)free.fr>: > Thanks for your answers. > > To speak frankly: > > * I wrote the Drupal guide for porting from MySQL to PostgreSQL. > > * I am also the author of remarks about people should use PostgreSQL to > write portable SQL. > > * I am very surprised by the SQL level of Php developers. The example > Drupal developers trying to rewrite SQL queries dynamically adding > DISTINCT clause is just an example. So don't expect them to understand > the difference between MySQL and PostgreSQL. It is out of reach. They > focuse on Php code. > > * I got banned from Drupal website during 2 days because I opened a bug > complaining about a long running SQL query that moved the whole content > of a 20.000 rows forum into PHP variables just to display 'Previous' and > 'Next' links. I had to write Dries Buytaert to get unbanned. Then Prev > and Next features got removed from Drupal. They did not even try to use > SELECT FROM ... LIMIT ... OFFSET to find prev and next records. > > * Php developers analyze database performance using PHP cache. They > never read MySQL logging information. I guess they don't have such > information, as on some providers, MySQL is configured without logging > (for ... speed as MySQL configuration states). So they use Php code to > display performance information. > > All this is true. > > Nevertheless, I feel my explanations are useless. This is like fighting > against the wind. > > I believe that PostgreSQL should support more MySQLisms in order to BEAT > MySQL. > > Feel free to use my guide on Drupal website. We have to adapt tools to > people, not the converse. > > Kind regards, > Jean-Michel Pouré > This is confusing advocacy and technical considerations. Yes PHP coders are often deeply ignorant of database issues, many of them deliberately and militantly so. I have had my altercations with the Drupal community over dumb SQL and uncritical praise of document databases as a pancea. MySQL has a set of characteristics (maybe even deliberately) which work well for uptake in that market. One of the reasons I like Postgres is the feeling I get that the product and the community around it would like to make better databases. They would like to use databases better and make it possible for others to use databases better. On that front MySQL is already beaten. Just as the abuse of spreadsheets for data management will probably never be properly vanquished, the permissiveness of MySQL will always present a lower hurdle to some coders. The perception of MySQL as enemy number one does also concern me a bit. Postgres is competing for installed base on a far wider front than that. If installed base is really that meaningful a competition in the first place. Bell. -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers(a)postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
From: Jaime Casanova on 5 Mar 2010 13:02 2010/3/5 François Pérou <francois.perou(a)free.fr>: > > I believe that PostgreSQL should support more MySQLisms in order to BEAT > MySQL. > we BEAT mysql long ago... to make postgres as broken as mysql is not an improve... > Feel free to use my guide on Drupal website. We have to adapt tools to > people, not the converse. > with that reasoning, then Galileo and Copernico should had faken their tests to adjust the results to most people expections about the earth being the center of the universe and our sun orbiting us -- Atentamente, Jaime Casanova Soporte y capacitación de PostgreSQL AsesorÃa y desarrollo de sistemas Guayaquil - Ecuador Cel. +59387171157 -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers(a)postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
From: "Joshua D. Drake" on 5 Mar 2010 13:07
On Fri, 2010-03-05 at 12:42 -0500, Robert Haas wrote: > 2010/3/5 François Pérou <francois.perou(a)free.fr>: > > * I am very surprised by the SQL level of Php developers. The example > > Drupal developers trying to rewrite SQL queries dynamically adding > > DISTINCT clause is just an example. So don't expect them to understand > > the difference between MySQL and PostgreSQL. It is out of reach. They > > focuse on Php code. > > I think you're still missing the point. I am sorry that the Drupal > developers (at least in your opinion) do not understand the difference > between MySQL and PostgreSQL, but I don't feel like it's our problem > to fix that. As far as I can tell, no promiment member of this > community agrees with any of the changes you are proposing. Correct. Not to mention as far as I understand it, 99% of this is resolved in Drupal 7. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir. -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers(a)postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers |