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From: powerampfreak on 19 Feb 2010 12:47
On 19 Feb, 16:55, "N_Cook" <dive...(a)tcp.co.uk> wrote:
> powerampfreak <powerampfr...(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:978ad71c-8228-40a0-9df7-cd22c7b7902b(a)l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...> On 19 Feb, 11:41, "N_Cook" <dive...(a)tcp.co.uk> wrote:
> > > powerampfreak <powerampfr...(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f46cbc75-bb0c-44b2-b49d-e56fae83d5f8(a)v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > On 19 Feb, 10:30, powerampfreak <powerampfr...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Hi all.
> > > > > I've a plasma TV which has a problem with the picture. If you think
> of
> > > > > verticle lines through the entire screen, I would say the 1st, 5th
> and
> > > > > 10th is not lit. BUT, menus and on-screen displays work perfect
> giving
> > > > > a correct picture. But which ever input source I choose, (both
> scarts
> > > > > or composite video) the picture will have the "vertical lines"
> > > > > problem. So, why is OSD and menus work ok? There has be something in
> > > > > the scaling / picture generation parts.
> > > > > Anyone know of something useful where to check?
> > > > > Best regards
> > > > > PAF
>
> > > > Need to describe the problem better: There are a lot of vertical lines
> > > > on the screen not lit at all. I would say 1st, 5th and 10th.. and it
> > > > all repeats again.
> > > > So most of the picture is there but is loosing some lines in every
> > > > inch of the screen from left ro right.
>
> > > Are you saying there must be no problem with the final demultiplexing
> > > chippery at the screen as the Menu/OSD display comes up fine?
>
> > In my world, thinking in terms of old CRT screens which recieve R,G,B
> > signals to drive the tube, the menu OSD information is mixed together
> > with the CVBS signal and fed the the RGB amps.
> > If there was a faulty tube, giving for instance, no red colour, both
> > picture and osd information was affected.
> > In this plasma case, all "dark" lines starts to light when displaying
> > osd information.
> > That makes me believe the plasma screen itself and it's drive
> > electronics is ok. I know very little about plasma technology, was
> > mostly involved with crt tv repairs back then.
> > Is my thinking incorrect?
> > I would love if there were some faulty power electronics failure,
> > instead of scaler/picture processing dsp failure.
> > But of course I don't know yet.
> > Appreciate any advice to move on. Thanks a lot!
>
> > Regards
> > PAF
>
> I would suspect a lifted contact on a SMD lead somewhere back in the initial
> video processing

This is exactly the hints I need. Could you possibly explain it a bit
further?
May I contact you directly by mail?

Regards
PAF
From: PlainBill47 on 19 Feb 2010 14:55
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:30:03 -0800 (PST), powerampfreak
<powerampfreak(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

>Hi all.
>I've a plasma TV which has a problem with the picture. If you think of
>verticle lines through the entire screen, I would say the 1st, 5th and
>10th is not lit. BUT, menus and on-screen displays work perfect giving
>a correct picture. But which ever input source I choose, (both scarts
>or composite video) the picture will have the "vertical lines"
>problem. So, why is OSD and menus work ok? There has be something in
>the scaling / picture generation parts.
>Anyone know of something useful where to check?
>Best regards
>PAF
Can you read schematics? The service manual for that set appears to
be available here: http://www.nodevice.com/manual/Samsung/page54.html

This definitely sounds like a scalar problem; not a driver or panel
issue. Many manufacturers use Samsung panels and drive electronics in
their plasma sets. The actual video processing is handled on a single
card designed and manufactured by the company whose name will appear
on the finished product. I would not be optomistic of this being
repairable at the component level. The video processing card consists
of a number of fairly complex processors working together.

PlainBill
From: powerampfreak on 20 Feb 2010 07:21
On 19 Feb, 20:55, PlainBil...(a)yahoo.com wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:30:03 -0800 (PST), powerampfreak
>
> <powerampfr...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Hi all.
> >I've a plasma TV which has a problem with the picture. If you think of
> >verticle lines through the entire screen, I would say the 1st, 5th and
> >10th is not lit. BUT, menus and on-screen displays work perfect giving
> >a correct picture. But which ever input source I choose, (both scarts
> >or composite video) the picture will have the "vertical lines"
> >problem. So, why is OSD and menus work ok? There has be something in
> >the scaling / picture generation parts.
> >Anyone know of something useful where to check?
> >Best regards
> >PAF
>
> Can you read schematics?  The service manual for that set appears to
> be available here:http://www.nodevice.com/manual/Samsung/page54.html
>
> This definitely sounds like a scalar problem; not a driver or panel
> issue.  Many manufacturers use Samsung panels and drive electronics in
> their plasma sets.  The actual video processing is handled on a single
> card designed and manufactured by the company whose name will appear
> on the finished product.  I would not be optomistic of this being
> repairable at the component level.  The video processing card consists
> of a number of fairly complex processors working together.
>
> PlainBill

I'm familiar with schematics, I'm working my electronics, but not
plasma TV's unfortunately..
I did buy the service manual for the TV, at nodevice.com. Thanks for
the link!
Unfortunately, the service manual wasn't complete, the smps part and
output driver parts were missing,
but it seems most of the video processing board is there.
I suspect one of those processors to be the problem:
ASI501 which isn't possible to desolder (legs are underneath)
GENESIS FL12310 (possible to desolder)
I guess one of these ic's is the scaler.

In case, anyone has a complete board for no use, I'm interested (not
too optimistic...)

Board: NELSON
Code: BN41-00452 C
Rev: MP 1.4 (2004-08-19)

When having no input source connected, the screen is ALL blue. (all
lines OK)
Pressing MENU, it all looks briliant.
Connecting a video source, the picture has the "vertical lines"
problem. (still menu and all OSD is ok)
Also, I noticed, when having no input source connected (blue screen)
and apply input source, then screen goes all black for one second,
before it displays the video. During this second, when screen is
black, it's possible to see the veritcal lines problem very faint in
the black screen aswell.

As Plainbill said, I'm also starting to loose my optimism in getting
this nice set back to life.

I was calling local Samsung service, they absolutely have no spare
parts for such an old set from 2004/2005. They even have problems to
get spare parts to one year old sets... That's unbeliveable!
How can they offer that bad customer service. All they want to is
selling new sets appearently.

Regards
PAF





From: N_Cook on 20 Feb 2010 07:29
powerampfreak <powerampfreak(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b6045eee-7954-4241-8e60-4b67bb278956(a)g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On 19 Feb, 20:55, PlainBil...(a)yahoo.com wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:30:03 -0800 (PST), powerampfreak
>
> <powerampfr...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Hi all.
> >I've a plasma TV which has a problem with the picture. If you think of
> >verticle lines through the entire screen, I would say the 1st, 5th and
> >10th is not lit. BUT, menus and on-screen displays work perfect giving
> >a correct picture. But which ever input source I choose, (both scarts
> >or composite video) the picture will have the "vertical lines"
> >problem. So, why is OSD and menus work ok? There has be something in
> >the scaling / picture generation parts.
> >Anyone know of something useful where to check?
> >Best regards
> >PAF
>
> Can you read schematics? The service manual for that set appears to
> be available here:http://www.nodevice.com/manual/Samsung/page54.html
>
> This definitely sounds like a scalar problem; not a driver or panel
> issue. Many manufacturers use Samsung panels and drive electronics in
> their plasma sets. The actual video processing is handled on a single
> card designed and manufactured by the company whose name will appear
> on the finished product. I would not be optomistic of this being
> repairable at the component level. The video processing card consists
> of a number of fairly complex processors working together.
>
> PlainBill

I'm familiar with schematics, I'm working my electronics, but not
plasma TV's unfortunately..
I did buy the service manual for the TV, at nodevice.com. Thanks for
the link!
Unfortunately, the service manual wasn't complete, the smps part and
output driver parts were missing,
but it seems most of the video processing board is there.
I suspect one of those processors to be the problem:
ASI501 which isn't possible to desolder (legs are underneath)
GENESIS FL12310 (possible to desolder)
I guess one of these ic's is the scaler.

In case, anyone has a complete board for no use, I'm interested (not
too optimistic...)

Board: NELSON
Code: BN41-00452 C
Rev: MP 1.4 (2004-08-19)

When having no input source connected, the screen is ALL blue. (all
lines OK)
Pressing MENU, it all looks briliant.
Connecting a video source, the picture has the "vertical lines"
problem. (still menu and all OSD is ok)
Also, I noticed, when having no input source connected (blue screen)
and apply input source, then screen goes all black for one second,
before it displays the video. During this second, when screen is
black, it's possible to see the veritcal lines problem very faint in
the black screen aswell.

As Plainbill said, I'm also starting to loose my optimism in getting
this nice set back to life.

I was calling local Samsung service, they absolutely have no spare
parts for such an old set from 2004/2005. They even have problems to
get spare parts to one year old sets... That's unbeliveable!
How can they offer that bad customer service. All they want to is
selling new sets appearently.

Regards
PAF


If you find a pressure sensitive BGA or similar IC, bits of rubber, wooden
wedges and cable ties around the IC and through a known, maybe multilayer
track-clear, section of pcb could give a bodge fix




From: powerampfreak on 20 Feb 2010 11:24
On 20 Feb, 13:29, "N_Cook" <dive...(a)tcp.co.uk> wrote:
> powerampfreak <powerampfr...(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b6045eee-7954-4241-8e60-4b67bb278956(a)g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> On 19 Feb, 20:55, PlainBil...(a)yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:30:03 -0800 (PST), powerampfreak
>
> > <powerampfr...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >Hi all.
> > >I've a plasma TV which has a problem with the picture. If you think of
> > >verticle lines through the entire screen, I would say the 1st, 5th and
> > >10th is not lit. BUT, menus and on-screen displays work perfect giving
> > >a correct picture. But which ever input source I choose, (both scarts
> > >or composite video) the picture will have the "vertical lines"
> > >problem. So, why is OSD and menus work ok? There has be something in
> > >the scaling / picture generation parts.
> > >Anyone know of something useful where to check?
> > >Best regards
> > >PAF
>
> > Can you read schematics? The service manual for that set appears to
> > be available here:http://www.nodevice.com/manual/Samsung/page54.html
>
> > This definitely sounds like a scalar problem; not a driver or panel
> > issue. Many manufacturers use Samsung panels and drive electronics in
> > their plasma sets. The actual video processing is handled on a single
> > card designed and manufactured by the company whose name will appear
> > on the finished product. I would not be optomistic of this being
> > repairable at the component level. The video processing card consists
> > of a number of fairly complex processors working together.
>
> > PlainBill
>
> I'm familiar with schematics, I'm working my electronics, but not
> plasma TV's unfortunately..
> I did buy the service manual for the TV, at nodevice.com. Thanks for
> the link!
> Unfortunately, the service manual wasn't complete, the smps part and
> output driver parts were missing,
> but it seems most of the video processing board is there.
> I suspect one of those processors to be the problem:
> ASI501 which isn't possible to desolder (legs are underneath)
> GENESIS FL12310 (possible to desolder)
> I guess one of these ic's is the scaler.
>
> In case, anyone has a complete board for no use, I'm interested (not
> too optimistic...)
>
> Board: NELSON
> Code:  BN41-00452 C
> Rev:    MP 1.4 (2004-08-19)
>
> When having no input source connected, the screen is ALL blue. (all
> lines OK)
> Pressing MENU, it all looks briliant.
> Connecting a video source, the picture has the "vertical lines"
> problem. (still menu and all OSD is ok)
> Also, I noticed, when having no input source connected (blue screen)
> and apply input source, then screen goes all black for one second,
> before it displays the video. During this second, when screen is
> black, it's possible to see the veritcal lines problem very faint in
> the black screen aswell.
>
> As Plainbill said, I'm also starting to loose my optimism in getting
> this nice set back to life.
>
> I was calling local Samsung service, they absolutely have no spare
> parts for such an old set from 2004/2005. They even have problems to
> get spare parts to one year old sets... That's unbeliveable!
> How can they offer that bad customer service. All they want to is
> selling new sets appearently.
>
> Regards
> PAF
>
> If you find a pressure sensitive BGA or similar  IC, bits of rubber, wooden
> wedges and cable ties around the IC and through a known, maybe multilayer
> track-clear, section of pcb could give a bodge fix

I did test to apply pressure to all of the ic's on the video
processing board without any difference. I was out of freeze spray,
maybe that could give some hints which ic is bad..
But. the failure shouldn't be in the smps / X-Y screen drivers or
similair.. It's still most "hot" in the video processing parts?

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