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From: PlainBill47 on 20 Feb 2010 12:53
On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 04:21:41 -0800 (PST), powerampfreak
<powerampfreak(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 19 Feb, 20:55, PlainBil...(a)yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:30:03 -0800 (PST), powerampfreak
>>
>> <powerampfr...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >Hi all.
>> >I've a plasma TV which has a problem with the picture. If you think of
>> >verticle lines through the entire screen, I would say the 1st, 5th and
>> >10th is not lit. BUT, menus and on-screen displays work perfect giving
>> >a correct picture. But which ever input source I choose, (both scarts
>> >or composite video) the picture will have the "vertical lines"
>> >problem. So, why is OSD and menus work ok? There has be something in
>> >the scaling / picture generation parts.
>> >Anyone know of something useful where to check?
>> >Best regards
>> >PAF
>>
>> Can you read schematics? �The service manual for that set appears to
>> be available here:http://www.nodevice.com/manual/Samsung/page54.html
>>
>> This definitely sounds like a scalar problem; not a driver or panel
>> issue. �Many manufacturers use Samsung panels and drive electronics in
>> their plasma sets. �The actual video processing is handled on a single
>> card designed and manufactured by the company whose name will appear
>> on the finished product. �I would not be optomistic of this being
>> repairable at the component level. �The video processing card consists
>> of a number of fairly complex processors working together.
>>
>> PlainBill
>
>I'm familiar with schematics, I'm working my electronics, but not
>plasma TV's unfortunately..
>I did buy the service manual for the TV, at nodevice.com. Thanks for
>the link!
>Unfortunately, the service manual wasn't complete, the smps part and
>output driver parts were missing,
>but it seems most of the video processing board is there.
>I suspect one of those processors to be the problem:
>ASI501 which isn't possible to desolder (legs are underneath)
>GENESIS FL12310 (possible to desolder)
>I guess one of these ic's is the scaler.
>
>In case, anyone has a complete board for no use, I'm interested (not
>too optimistic...)
>
>Board: NELSON
>Code: BN41-00452 C
>Rev: MP 1.4 (2004-08-19)
>
>When having no input source connected, the screen is ALL blue. (all
>lines OK)
>Pressing MENU, it all looks briliant.
>Connecting a video source, the picture has the "vertical lines"
>problem. (still menu and all OSD is ok)
>Also, I noticed, when having no input source connected (blue screen)
>and apply input source, then screen goes all black for one second,
>before it displays the video. During this second, when screen is
>black, it's possible to see the veritcal lines problem very faint in
>the black screen aswell.
>
>As Plainbill said, I'm also starting to loose my optimism in getting
>this nice set back to life.
>
>I was calling local Samsung service, they absolutely have no spare
>parts for such an old set from 2004/2005. They even have problems to
>get spare parts to one year old sets... That's unbeliveable!
>How can they offer that bad customer service. All they want to is
>selling new sets appearently.
>
>Regards
>PAF
>
A quick lecture on how plasma sets are built. Samsung has a division
that produces plasma panels. These are wholesaled as a 'display unit'
consisting of the panel, drivers, sustain boards, and a power suppy.
The power supply is customized for the particular wholesale customer.
The customer then adds a case, signal input card, audio amp, speakers,
etc. This results in a TV where physically most of the parts are not
under the manufacturer's control, and consequently schematics that
don't cover the whole TV.

As an aside, I just repaired a Philips plasma set, based on a
Samsung panel. The schematics are available, but only covered the
parts supplied by Philips. Virtually all of the processing was
handled on the Small Signal Board. The schematic for it ran to more
than 12 pages.

I'm not familiar with Samsung's TVs, but the Philips schematics
identify a part refered to as the 'scalar'. I would say that it is
very likely that the problem is in that part.

Parts availability has been a problem at least since the building of
the Pyramids. Imagine ordering a new stone from the quarry.

PlainBill

From: powerampfreak on 20 Feb 2010 20:15
On 20 Feb, 18:53, PlainBil...(a)yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 04:21:41 -0800 (PST), powerampfreak
>
>
>
> <powerampfr...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On 19 Feb, 20:55, PlainBil...(a)yahoo.com wrote:
> >> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:30:03 -0800 (PST), powerampfreak
>
> >> <powerampfr...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >Hi all.
> >> >I've a plasma TV which has a problem with the picture. If you think of
> >> >verticle lines through the entire screen, I would say the 1st, 5th and
> >> >10th is not lit. BUT, menus and on-screen displays work perfect giving
> >> >a correct picture. But which ever input source I choose, (both scarts
> >> >or composite video) the picture will have the "vertical lines"
> >> >problem. So, why is OSD and menus work ok? There has be something in
> >> >the scaling / picture generation parts.
> >> >Anyone know of something useful where to check?
> >> >Best regards
> >> >PAF
>
> >> Can you read schematics?  The service manual for that set appears to
> >> be available here:http://www.nodevice.com/manual/Samsung/page54.html
>
> >> This definitely sounds like a scalar problem; not a driver or panel
> >> issue.  Many manufacturers use Samsung panels and drive electronics in
> >> their plasma sets.  The actual video processing is handled on a single
> >> card designed and manufactured by the company whose name will appear
> >> on the finished product.  I would not be optomistic of this being
> >> repairable at the component level.  The video processing card consists
> >> of a number of fairly complex processors working together.
>
> >> PlainBill
>
> >I'm familiar with schematics, I'm working my electronics, but not
> >plasma TV's unfortunately..
> >I did buy the service manual for the TV, at nodevice.com. Thanks for
> >the link!
> >Unfortunately, the service manual wasn't complete, the smps part and
> >output driver parts were missing,
> >but it seems most of the video processing board is there.
> >I suspect one of those processors to be the problem:
> >ASI501 which isn't possible to desolder (legs are underneath)
> >GENESIS FL12310 (possible to desolder)
> >I guess one of these ic's is the scaler.
>
> >In case, anyone has a complete board for no use, I'm interested (not
> >too optimistic...)
>
> >Board: NELSON
> >Code:  BN41-00452 C
> >Rev:    MP 1.4 (2004-08-19)
>
> >When having no input source connected, the screen is ALL blue. (all
> >lines OK)
> >Pressing MENU, it all looks briliant.
> >Connecting a video source, the picture has the "vertical lines"
> >problem. (still menu and all OSD is ok)
> >Also, I noticed, when having no input source connected (blue screen)
> >and apply input source, then screen goes all black for one second,
> >before it displays the video. During this second, when screen is
> >black, it's possible to see the veritcal lines problem very faint in
> >the black screen aswell.
>
> >As Plainbill said, I'm also starting to loose my optimism in getting
> >this nice set back to life.
>
> >I was calling local Samsung service, they absolutely have no spare
> >parts for such an old set from 2004/2005. They even have problems to
> >get spare parts to one year old sets... That's unbeliveable!
> >How can they offer that bad customer service. All they want to is
> >selling new sets appearently.
>
> >Regards
> >PAF
>
> A quick lecture on how plasma sets are built.  Samsung has a division
> that produces plasma panels.  These are wholesaled as a 'display unit'
> consisting of the panel, drivers, sustain boards, and a power suppy.
> The power supply is customized for the particular wholesale customer.
> The customer then adds a case, signal input card, audio amp, speakers,
> etc. This results in a TV where physically most of the parts are not
> under the manufacturer's control, and consequently schematics that
> don't cover the whole TV.
>
>   As an aside, I just repaired a Philips plasma set, based on a
> Samsung panel.  The schematics are available, but only covered the
> parts supplied by Philips.  Virtually all of the processing was
> handled on the Small Signal Board.  The schematic for it ran to more
> than 12 pages.
>
>   I'm not familiar with Samsung's TVs, but the Philips schematics
> identify a part refered to as the 'scalar'.  I would say that it is
> very likely that the problem is in that part.
>
> Parts availability has been a problem at least since the building of
> the Pyramids.  Imagine ordering a new stone from the quarry.
>
> PlainBill

I found what I believe is the scaler IC (ASI501) as spare part, but I
don't know who has the tools to change it.
At my work, we have heat gun soldering tools and microscopes, so other
IC's with 500 legs are possible to replace.
But not BGA's...
The service manual doesn't display the IC as "scaler", maybe you would
like to look at the schematics, and you may get an idea if I'm on the
right track?
The question is if there are lots of data stored in those processors
that needs to be flashed after replacement?
Or maybe the micro processor take care of all data.

Best regards
PAF
From: Franc Zabkar on 14 Mar 2010 18:18
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:30:03 -0800 (PST), powerampfreak
<powerampfreak(a)hotmail.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>Hi all.
>I've a plasma TV which has a problem with the picture. If you think of
>verticle lines through the entire screen, I would say the 1st, 5th and
>10th is not lit. BUT, menus and on-screen displays work perfect giving
>a correct picture. But which ever input source I choose, (both scarts
>or composite video) the picture will have the "vertical lines"
>problem. So, why is OSD and menus work ok? There has be something in
>the scaling / picture generation parts.
>Anyone know of something useful where to check?
>Best regards
>PAF

If you vary the aspect ratio, do the lines move?

Can the TV accept a DVI/HDMI input from a PC? If so, would it be
possible to create a test pattern for troubleshooting purposes? What
about a single vertical line with a user selectable colour and
position, that flashes on and off once per second??? That should make
the signal path easier to follow on a scope.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
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