Slightly OT: Graphic of Unemployment in the United States
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From: Daniel Nordlund on 2 Dec 2009 16:29 > -----Original Message----- > From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Mary > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:27 PM > To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > Subject: Re: Slightly OT: Graphic of Unemployment in the United States > > Yes, and what the graphic of unemployment is showing is > an important thing- that unemployment has spread to areas > that aren't normally affected, though it would have been > nice to have more categories towards the top of the unemployment > numbers, such as showing the areas with higher than 10% unemployment > more differentiated from those below 8.5% unemployment. <<<snip>>> > > However, the graph did show that unemployment is reaching into many more > areas than just the traditional inner city/suburb divide; that did make > it interesting; that so many people are picking up and changing the states > in > which they live indicates a seriousness to the situation not seen since > the depression. Mary, In what way does the graph (map) show that people are moving to different states? It may be happening, but I guess I don't see any indication of people moving in the graph itself. Dan Daniel Nordlund Bothell, WA USA
From: Mary on 2 Dec 2009 17:48 No, I don't think the graph can really show this- but I have realized it myself in attempting to move from Iowa to Minnesota-it isn't unusual to see people willing to share or rent houses due to them leaving for a different state, or working in another state and coming back weekends; I've been looking for a housemate for my house back in Iowa and have had numerous, serious inquiries of people moving from Alabama, Arizona, Missouri, Kansas to Iowa; I'm startled at the number of people moving from long distances away in order to find a job, because they were laid off where they were at and can't find another anywhere close. Thus it is not that there aren't jobs in Iowa, there just aren't jobs in what I do (we have Rockwell Collins in Cedar Rapids, so if you are a war planes engineer, there are jobs there), whereas SAS jobs tend to be elsewhere- such as where insurance companies or large medical centers are located. Thus, people are moving to go to a location where their particular skill set is needed. It would be fascinating to see a similar change graph for SAS jobs- perhaps Rob the Graph Guy at SAS would like to take this on, it could be done based on SAS licenses. My guess is while there may be as many SAS jobs as before, that they have moved to be in more concentrated locations, which would require SAS programmers to be moving as well.... -Mary --- djnordlund(a)VERIZON.NET wrote: From: Daniel Nordlund <djnordlund(a)VERIZON.NET> To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Slightly OT: Graphic of Unemployment in the United States Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:29:01 -0800 > -----Original Message----- > From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Mary > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:27 PM > To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > Subject: Re: Slightly OT: Graphic of Unemployment in the United States > > Yes, and what the graphic of unemployment is showing is > an important thing- that unemployment has spread to areas > that aren't normally affected, though it would have been > nice to have more categories towards the top of the unemployment > numbers, such as showing the areas with higher than 10% unemployment > more differentiated from those below 8.5% unemployment. <<<snip>>> > > However, the graph did show that unemployment is reaching into many more > areas than just the traditional inner city/suburb divide; that did make > it interesting; that so many people are picking up and changing the states > in > which they live indicates a seriousness to the situation not seen since > the depression. Mary, In what way does the graph (map) show that people are moving to different states? It may be happening, but I guess I don't see any indication of people moving in the graph itself. Dan Daniel Nordlund Bothell, WA USA
From: Arthur Tabachneck on 2 Dec 2009 18:23 Jonathan, I was quite willing to leave this with agreeing to disagree, but you can't "complete disagree" with my statement that I find something confusing. I don't know if I saw the map in its original colors, I looked at the version found at: http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/12/31/229-vital- statistics-of-a-deadly-campaign-the-minard-map/ or, in short form: http://xrl.us/bgeyxz But, even though both Wainer and Tufte had high accolades for that map, I still have high doubts that the general public would take the time to understand what it contains. Since my own audience is the general public, again, I wouldn't use the technique as I find that including too much information defeats the purpose of conveying or supporting an idea. Art --------- On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 14:02:47 -0500, Jonathan Goldberg <jgoldberg(a)BIOMEDSYS.COM> wrote: >I completely disagree with: > >"What the author identifies as "the best graph ever made" is one that is so >confusing (to me) that I would never try to replicate the methods used as >I'm sure it would totally confuse at least some readers." > >It helps to see it in good resolution and color. The graph is indeed >amazing in packing a lot of information onto one page in clear, easy to >decode form. > >Like Wainer and Tufte (AKA god) I think that in almost all cases more >information is better if it can be done clearly. > >As a general rule, concerning graphics, Tufte is right. Think hard before >disagreeing with him.
From: Dale McLerran on 2 Dec 2009 19:09 --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Peter Flom <peterflomconsulting(a)MINDSPRING.COM> wrote: > From: Peter Flom <peterflomconsulting(a)MINDSPRING.COM> > Subject: Re: Slightly OT: Graphic of Unemployment in the United States > To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 3:38 PM > > Sometimes a simpler graph is better, but a graph that > distorts the data is NEVER good. > Distortions which lead to misinterpretation of data are not good. But I presume that you would not object to distorting map boundary lines so as to represent geographic regions according to some size metric other than area. (See the post by Paul Choate at http://listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0912a&L=sas-l&F=&S=&P=19131 or my earlier post at http://listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0912a&L=sas-l&F=&S=&P=21631 to find links to explicit examples of the type of plot to which I refer. Or do I assume too much? Dale --------------------------------------- Dale McLerran Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center mailto: dmclerra(a)NO_SPAMfhcrc.org Ph: (206) 667-2926 Fax: (206) 667-5977 ---------------------------------------
From: "Choate, Paul on 2 Dec 2009 19:37
Dale - I liked the original graph in this thread too. The change over time is the point and it's well made IMHO. It needs population density caveats is all. The cartography approach is too complicated for simple application Paul Choate DDS Data Extraction (916) 654-2160 -----Original Message----- From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Dale McLerran Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:39 AM To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Slightly OT: Graphic of Unemployment in the United States Paul, I was thinking the same thing and had just located a pdf file with a number of examples where geographical boundaries are distorted so that area size represents population or some other size measure. I believe that such projections are generally attributable to a cartographer named Walter Tobler (although I could be mistaken on this point). Here is the pdf with other similar examples: http://www.santafe.edu/~mgastner/publications/thesis_compr.pdf Note that sometimes the shape of these projected map is itself the salient feature of the graphic. Figure 2.15 on page 35 of the thesis which I have referenced shows two maps, one in which the size of each state is proportional to energy consumption and the other in which the size of each state is proportional to energy production. Shape differences draw your attention to states which are big producers and low consumers (and vice versa). Wyoming and West Virginia immediately stand out for high energy production and low energy consumption. I would note that these two maps are imperfect themselves. The maps are not scaled to have the same total area, although they should have been. If the plots were scaled to have the same total area, then one could immediately identify states which are energy exporters, importers, or energy neutral. For example, my eyeball inflation of the energy producers plot to place it on the same scale as the energy consumers plot would suggest that Pennsylvania might be energy neutral. It should be noted that these plots are more difficult to construct. We probably would not want to map counties using such projections because of the complexity of the algorithms for reshaping the plot boundaries. It would probably be preferable to reduce data to a state level. But then we would lose much of the information about NYC as it would be absorbed into a larger geographical region. However, the effect of unemployment in NYC would be felt in both the size of the state of NY as well as in the state unemployment rate. But just for the record, I do feel that the graphic which Art pointed to does convey quite well a huge increase in unemployment and the attendant recession. It is not meant to show precisely what the unemployment rates are across the United States. It is meant to show the increase in unemployment across the United States. In using an animated graphic, the plot conveys what is intended. Dale --------------------------------------- Dale McLerran Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center mailto: dmclerra(a)NO_SPAMfhcrc.org Ph: (206) 667-2926 Fax: (206) 667-5977 --------------------------------------- --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Choate, Paul(a)DDS <pchoate(a)DDS.CA.GOV> wrote: > From: Choate, Paul(a)DDS <pchoate(a)DDS.CA.GOV> > Subject: Re: Slightly OT: Graphic of Unemployment in the United States > To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 8:36 AM > Haven't read the whole thread, so > pardon if this was mentioned .... > > This is similar to the red vs. blue election maps - > population > cartograms are much better at proportionally representing > geographic > based information. > > Mark Newman of the Department of Physics and Center for the > Study of > Complex Systems at University of Michigan has a great web > page on this. > > http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/ > > > Paul Choate > DDS Data Extraction > (916) 654-2160 > -----Original Message----- > From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Ben > Powell > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 7:38 AM > To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > Subject: Re: Slightly OT: Graphic of Unemployment in the > United States > > I agree, brings to mind the nerve density maps of the human > body, where > the > finger tips are oversize, > > Rgds > |