Solar-pumped laser power transmission, a way to dramatically decrease launch costs?
in [Physics]
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From: Androcles on 14 Feb 2010 13:33 "William Mook" <mokmedical(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:ec69fe16-04e1-4147-82e8-4f007cb68a41(a)g23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com... On Feb 12, 5:16 pm, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_u> wrote: > "William Mook" <mokmedi...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:fbbddf2d-60ea-4ed3-a183-23e920219728(a)k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 18 2009, 4:43 am, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_q> > wrote: > > > "Jonathan" <H...(a)Again.net> wrote in message > > >news:p5SdndXFAKoISrfWnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d(a)giganews.com... > > > >I like this idea, Relatively small mirrors would power > > > the lasers, not huge solar cell arrays. The lasers would > > > transmit their beams to other satellites that convert it to, and > > > beam it down, as microwaves. No need for mile-size > > > collectors in orbit. > > > What are you babbling about? > > I can't be certain, but I will say that if you move a solar collector > array closer to the sun it will gather more energy for a given size. > ============================================= > It won't be in Earth orbit then. That is absolutely correct. It will be on solar orbit. The orbital period will be 24 hours at 3 million km radius. ============================================== You may find it a tad warm 2 million miles from the sun. It will gather rather more energy than you wanted, and having a 24-hour year it won't be in sight of Earth for more than 14 hours each Earth day as it disappears behind the Sun for 10 hours of that period.
From: William Mook on 14 Feb 2010 13:46 On Feb 14, 7:28 am, Pat Flannery <flan...(a)daktel.com> wrote: > David Spain wrote: > > Pat Flannery <flan...(a)daktel.com> writes: > > >> To get this up to the point where all the effort is justified due to the > >> increased solar flux, you are probably going to have to get the solar > >> collector into something like the distance of Mercury's orbit of the Sun, and > >> a microwave beam is going to spread all over the place from that distance on > >> its way to Earth. > > > I thought we were talking about L1, not Mercury. We're crossing into > > Mookopia at this point, never mind.... > > I just pointed out that the only place closer to the Sun where it's > going to stay in the same relative position with Earth is at L-1. > That's only 1% closer to the Sun than putting it in Earth orbit, so it's > not going to net you all that great of increase in solar illumination, > while introducing a lot of problems with power transmission over that > distance (1.5 million kilometers). The only advantage you really get is > not having to worry about it going into shadow at some point during the > day or year. On the flip side Earth is rotating under it, so it can't be > focused on a single surface rectenna like something in GEO can. > > Pat One of the great advantages of using holographic techniques to steer laser beams is that an optical connection may be maintained even when the two end points are moving relative to one another. So, one satellite in GEO to receive and redirect laser energy combined with one satellite in an orbit 3 million km from the solar surface provides just such a link. The satellite in GEO then redirects laser energy holographically to any number of users within Cislunar space.
From: BradGuth on 14 Feb 2010 13:58 On Jan 2, 12:37 pm, William Mook <mokmedi...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > You start with > > Laser Power Transmissionhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QAUkt2VPHI > > And use it to expand the energy markets > > Solar Power - Entering the Market - alkanes - protons - photonshttp://www..youtube.com/watch?v=iWiXDu64c0g > > Initially Put Up with Chemical Powered Spacecrafthttp://www.scribd.com/doc/24390383/mokaerospace-3 > > transitioning to > > Laser Powered Spacecrafthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAdj6vpYppA > > Made from Propulsive Skinshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzXwctPXT4chttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxV2FCUESh0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzG4PEureFg > > Which create a diaspora of the human race across the solar system Your research and subsequent arguments are entirely worth considering, but it seems few if anyone cares, other than to topic/author stalk and bash for all they can muster. My Google Groups weekly average following is currently "4964 views of your messages", and that obviously doesn't include outside readers that are likely worth 90+% of what this greater global Usenet/ newsgroup audience has to offer. btw, Selene L1 is worthy of being solar illuminated roughly 97% of the time, and a tethered dipole element could extend a substantial platform of laser cannons and/or microwave transmitters safely to within 2r of Earth (closer if you'd dare). Of course there should also be a substantial tether anchoring this Selene L1 array of solar collectors to the lunar surface, exactly as I'd specified years ago for my LSE-CM/ISS that you and others opposed at every turn and on every possible grounds. Is there any chance we can work together on behalf of any of this? ~ BG
From: Scott M. Kozel on 14 Feb 2010 14:00 "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_u> wrote: > > "William Mook" <mokmedi...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > That is absolutely correct. It will be on solar orbit. The orbital > period will be 24 hours at 3 million km radius. > ============================================== > You may find it a tad warm 2 million miles from the sun. It will gather > rather more energy than you wanted, and having a 24-hour year it won't > be in sight of Earth for more than 14 hours each Earth day as it > disappears behind the Sun for 10 hours of that period. It would take an enormous amount of energy to put a satellite that far down into the Sun's gravity well. It has been difficult enough to get a satellite into the same orbit as Mercury, which is 35 million miles from the Sun.
From: BradGuth on 14 Feb 2010 14:05
On Feb 14, 10:33 am, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_u> wrote: > "William Mook" <mokmedi...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:ec69fe16-04e1-4147-82e8-4f007cb68a41(a)g23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 12, 5:16 pm, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_u> wrote: > > > > > "William Mook" <mokmedi...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > >news:fbbddf2d-60ea-4ed3-a183-23e920219728(a)k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com.... > > On Dec 18 2009, 4:43 am, "Androcles" <Headmas...(a)Hogwarts.physics_q> > > wrote: > > > > "Jonathan" <H...(a)Again.net> wrote in message > > > >news:p5SdndXFAKoISrfWnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d(a)giganews.com... > > > > >I like this idea, Relatively small mirrors would power > > > > the lasers, not huge solar cell arrays. The lasers would > > > > transmit their beams to other satellites that convert it to, and > > > > beam it down, as microwaves. No need for mile-size > > > > collectors in orbit. > > > > What are you babbling about? > > > I can't be certain, but I will say that if you move a solar collector > > array closer to the sun it will gather more energy for a given size. > > ============================================= > > It won't be in Earth orbit then. > > That is absolutely correct. It will be on solar orbit. The orbital > period will be 24 hours at 3 million km radius. > ============================================== > You may find it a tad warm 2 million miles from the sun. It will gather > rather more energy than you wanted, and having a 24-hour year it won't > be in sight of Earth for more than 14 hours each Earth day as it > disappears behind the Sun for 10 hours of that period. You should realize that you're trying to tell the wizard of Oz how to get Dorothy home. ~ BG |