System Center Essentials on SBS 2008 Standard Network
|
Prev: Windows Mobile - Can't View Company Contacts
Next: SBS 2008 change company name on internal web sites
From: Daniel Jewel on 8 Jan 2010 14:43 Hi all, I would like to labtest SCE 2007 SP1 on a LAB SBS 2008 running on Hyper-V. Is it possible? do I use Server 2003 or 2008? Will I screw things up with WSUS on SBS 2008? Thanks, Dan
From: Cliff Galiher - MVP on 9 Jan 2010 00:21 Is it possible? Yes Do you use server 2003 or 2008? I'm confused by the question. If you are asking about the host OS, Hyper-V is a 2008-based technology. There is no Hyper-V role on 2003 or a Hyper-V product based on 2003. For the guest, you mentioned SBS 2008 already, which seems self-answering. Where did 2003 come into consideration?!? WSUS is a core component of SBS 2008 even if you don't install SCE, so no, it won't screw anything up. The SCE installer should detect and use the WSUS database. ....of course you started with "I'd like to labtest" to I'm assuming this will all be done in a lab-type environment. And the reason one does lab installs is to find the gotchas. So honestly, at this point, my recommendation is to forge forward. You can only get so much info by asking, sometimes you just have to "do." You'll learn a lot more. :) -Cliff "Daniel Jewel" <cyberdudeiq(a)yahoo.com.br> wrote in message news:#gg4trJkKHA.4872(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Hi all, > > I would like to labtest SCE 2007 SP1 on a LAB SBS 2008 running on Hyper-V. > Is it possible? do I use Server 2003 or 2008? Will I screw things up with > WSUS on SBS 2008? > > Thanks, > > Dan
From: Daniel Jewel on 9 Jan 2010 06:31 Sorry for the misunderstanding created... Parent is Server 2008 R2, guest is SBS 2008 STD, and I was asking for the correct choice for SCE... on another guest partition... should I go with 2003 R2 or 2008 R2? I agree with the learning route but this ng has been a TREMENDOUS HELP for me along these years...so I tend to check first....:) Dan "Cliff Galiher - MVP" <cgaliher(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:ehR5buOkKHA.1864(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Is it possible? Yes > > Do you use server 2003 or 2008? I'm confused by the question. If you are > asking about the host OS, Hyper-V is a 2008-based technology. There is no > Hyper-V role on 2003 or a Hyper-V product based on 2003. For the guest, > you mentioned SBS 2008 already, which seems self-answering. Where did > 2003 come into consideration?!? > > WSUS is a core component of SBS 2008 even if you don't install SCE, so no, > it won't screw anything up. The SCE installer should detect and use the > WSUS database. > > ...of course you started with "I'd like to labtest" to I'm assuming this > will all be done in a lab-type environment. And the reason one does lab > installs is to find the gotchas. So honestly, at this point, my > recommendation is to forge forward. You can only get so much info by > asking, sometimes you just have to "do." You'll learn a lot more. :) > > -Cliff > > > "Daniel Jewel" <cyberdudeiq(a)yahoo.com.br> wrote in message > news:#gg4trJkKHA.4872(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> Hi all, >> >> I would like to labtest SCE 2007 SP1 on a LAB SBS 2008 running on >> Hyper-V. >> Is it possible? do I use Server 2003 or 2008? Will I screw things up with >> WSUS on SBS 2008? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Dan >
From: Cliff Galiher - MVP on 9 Jan 2010 09:44 Although I usually recommend 3rd-party apps go on another server, this may be the exception. Since SBS 2008 is tightly integrated with WSUS, installing SCE on another server really causes some conflicts. You have to start making some very uncomfortable choices with regard to disabling features, going without, or jumping through some big hoops. With that in mind, I do have to mention that I have found *very* few SBS environments that are a good candidate for SCE. Remember that one of the main focuses of SBS is simplifying processes with tightly integrated components and wizards to help a small IT shop with limited resources get more done. SCE, although a great product, flies in the face of that premise. It is not a simple product to set up *or* administer. Its power comes from the management packs that can be installed, but maintaining those management packs, deciding what to override and what not to (overrides are a feature of SCE), and using the authoring tool to get the most out of the alerting system without getting false positives is a significant investment iof time, effort, and skill and is *not* for the feint of heart. Generally speaking, I've found that for a small environment, there are products that fit the "keep it simple" principal better. For reporting, I think Spiceworks has quickly grown into a robust and easy package to install and use. WSUS, of course, is a very capable patch management system. And if you decide you need software deployment, usually group policy software installations suffice...but that can be extended with products like SpecOps Deploy. All are easier to use, even in combination, that SCE for the jack-of-all-trades sysadmin. This is not a sleight against SCE. Simply an acknowledgement of its limitations. SCE is actually a more powerful product, allowing the sysadmin to automate many recovery processes with powershell scripting, custom alerting, and other features that I won't go into here. But that takes time, and usually if your environment is complicated enough that you need that level of monitoring and automation, it also means you've probably outgrown SBS (even if you are technically under the 75 user/machine limit.) A sysadmin that needs those features probably has some clustering (a common scenario where SCE can monitor and take preventative action) or some other type of scenario that SBS either blatantly does not support, or that the sysadmin is regularly skipping the wizards in favor of direct AD/object/system manipulation. And as any experienced SBS'er will tell you, skipping the wizards is bad. It leads to things being in an inconsistent state because other parts of SBS still expect the wizards to be useable and aren't aware of your changes. So, in short, if you *need* SCE, that usually means you don't want SBS. I'd look at EBS instead, which not coincidentally includes SCE and is less tightly integrated. Those are my thoughts, -Cliff "Daniel Jewel" <cyberdudeiq(a)yahoo.com.br> wrote in message news:#VNif9RkKHA.5076(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Sorry for the misunderstanding created... > > Parent is Server 2008 R2, guest is SBS 2008 STD, and I was asking for the > correct choice for SCE... on another guest partition... should I go with > 2003 R2 or 2008 R2? > > I agree with the learning route but this ng has been a TREMENDOUS HELP for > me along these years...so I tend to check first....:) > > Dan > > "Cliff Galiher - MVP" <cgaliher(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > news:ehR5buOkKHA.1864(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> Is it possible? Yes >> >> Do you use server 2003 or 2008? I'm confused by the question. If you >> are asking about the host OS, Hyper-V is a 2008-based technology. There >> is no Hyper-V role on 2003 or a Hyper-V product based on 2003. For the >> guest, you mentioned SBS 2008 already, which seems self-answering. Where >> did 2003 come into consideration?!? >> >> WSUS is a core component of SBS 2008 even if you don't install SCE, so >> no, it won't screw anything up. The SCE installer should detect and use >> the WSUS database. >> >> ...of course you started with "I'd like to labtest" to I'm assuming this >> will all be done in a lab-type environment. And the reason one does lab >> installs is to find the gotchas. So honestly, at this point, my >> recommendation is to forge forward. You can only get so much info by >> asking, sometimes you just have to "do." You'll learn a lot more. :) >> >> -Cliff >> >> >> "Daniel Jewel" <cyberdudeiq(a)yahoo.com.br> wrote in message >> news:#gg4trJkKHA.4872(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I would like to labtest SCE 2007 SP1 on a LAB SBS 2008 running on >>> Hyper-V. >>> Is it possible? do I use Server 2003 or 2008? Will I screw things up >>> with WSUS on SBS 2008? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Dan >>
From: Daniel Jewel on 9 Jan 2010 14:25
Great insight Cliff, Will take some time to digest all the VALUABLE INFO you provided. One of the reasons I need to test SCE is because a potential customer (outside the SBS realm) is flirting with the SCE approach and I'd like to see it (SCE) running so I can get my feet wet and have at leat an idea of what it does and its biz benefits. Thank you again, Dan "Cliff Galiher - MVP" <cgaliher(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:OBBV3oTkKHA.1864(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Although I usually recommend 3rd-party apps go on another server, this may > be the exception. Since SBS 2008 is tightly integrated with WSUS, > installing SCE on another server really causes some conflicts. You have > to start making some very uncomfortable choices with regard to disabling > features, going without, or jumping through some big hoops. > > With that in mind, I do have to mention that I have found *very* few SBS > environments that are a good candidate for SCE. Remember that one of the > main focuses of SBS is simplifying processes with tightly integrated > components and wizards to help a small IT shop with limited resources get > more done. SCE, although a great product, flies in the face of that > premise. It is not a simple product to set up *or* administer. Its power > comes from the management packs that can be installed, but maintaining > those management packs, deciding what to override and what not to > (overrides are a feature of SCE), and using the authoring tool to get the > most out of the alerting system without getting false positives is a > significant investment iof time, effort, and skill and is *not* for the > feint of heart. > > Generally speaking, I've found that for a small environment, there are > products that fit the "keep it simple" principal better. For reporting, I > think Spiceworks has quickly grown into a robust and easy package to > install and use. WSUS, of course, is a very capable patch management > system. And if you decide you need software deployment, usually group > policy software installations suffice...but that can be extended with > products like SpecOps Deploy. All are easier to use, even in combination, > that SCE for the jack-of-all-trades sysadmin. > > This is not a sleight against SCE. Simply an acknowledgement of its > limitations. SCE is actually a more powerful product, allowing the > sysadmin to automate many recovery processes with powershell scripting, > custom alerting, and other features that I won't go into here. But that > takes time, and usually if your environment is complicated enough that you > need that level of monitoring and automation, it also means you've > probably outgrown SBS (even if you are technically under the 75 > user/machine limit.) A sysadmin that needs those features probably has > some clustering (a common scenario where SCE can monitor and take > preventative action) or some other type of scenario that SBS either > blatantly does not support, or that the sysadmin is regularly skipping the > wizards in favor of direct AD/object/system manipulation. And as any > experienced SBS'er will tell you, skipping the wizards is bad. It leads > to things being in an inconsistent state because other parts of SBS still > expect the wizards to be useable and aren't aware of your changes. So, in > short, if you *need* SCE, that usually means you don't want SBS. I'd look > at EBS instead, which not coincidentally includes SCE and is less tightly > integrated. > > Those are my thoughts, > > -Cliff > > > "Daniel Jewel" <cyberdudeiq(a)yahoo.com.br> wrote in message > news:#VNif9RkKHA.5076(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> Sorry for the misunderstanding created... >> >> Parent is Server 2008 R2, guest is SBS 2008 STD, and I was asking for the >> correct choice for SCE... on another guest partition... should I go with >> 2003 R2 or 2008 R2? >> >> I agree with the learning route but this ng has been a TREMENDOUS HELP >> for me along these years...so I tend to check first....:) >> >> Dan >> >> "Cliff Galiher - MVP" <cgaliher(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:ehR5buOkKHA.1864(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>> Is it possible? Yes >>> >>> Do you use server 2003 or 2008? I'm confused by the question. If you >>> are asking about the host OS, Hyper-V is a 2008-based technology. There >>> is no Hyper-V role on 2003 or a Hyper-V product based on 2003. For the >>> guest, you mentioned SBS 2008 already, which seems self-answering. >>> Where did 2003 come into consideration?!? >>> >>> WSUS is a core component of SBS 2008 even if you don't install SCE, so >>> no, it won't screw anything up. The SCE installer should detect and use >>> the WSUS database. >>> >>> ...of course you started with "I'd like to labtest" to I'm assuming this >>> will all be done in a lab-type environment. And the reason one does lab >>> installs is to find the gotchas. So honestly, at this point, my >>> recommendation is to forge forward. You can only get so much info by >>> asking, sometimes you just have to "do." You'll learn a lot more. :) >>> >>> -Cliff >>> >>> >>> "Daniel Jewel" <cyberdudeiq(a)yahoo.com.br> wrote in message >>> news:#gg4trJkKHA.4872(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I would like to labtest SCE 2007 SP1 on a LAB SBS 2008 running on >>>> Hyper-V. >>>> Is it possible? do I use Server 2003 or 2008? Will I screw things up >>>> with WSUS on SBS 2008? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Dan >>> |