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From: dave.joubert on 11 Sep 2009 19:14
On Sep 11, 10:30 pm, "tom.rmadilo" <tom.rmad...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 11, 9:18 am, "dave.joub...(a)googlemail.com"
> > Several people have said that Tcl will be too big to run on an Android
> > handset, although I have not seen any hard figures along the lines of
> > 'The Jacl executable is 200 MB big, and Android has a executable
> > restriction of 32MB'.

>
> 32Megs is pretty big, unless that if for all executables combined. My
> tclsh usually takes up about 11Megs.
>

32MB was just a figure I sucked out of my thumb!! Not sure what the
actual figure is...

>
> Anyone have more info on getting Tcl working with android scripting?

No, but I will be setting up a Android toolchain on one my machines
over the weekend. My first experiment will be just to take the jar
files from Jacl and try to produce the required Android files.
Hopefully if it coughs and dies it will give me some useful info (such
as size limits).

As far as JSON is concerned, you only need dicts if you are doing
something complicated, like building a JSON structure incrementally
and then converting it to string just before sending it; JSON itself
is simple enough that one can just build/parse the strings directly.

http://www.json.org/example.html
http://groups.google.com/group/json-rpc/web/json-rpc-1-2-proposal

Dave
From: tom.rmadilo on 11 Sep 2009 20:12
On Sep 11, 4:14 pm, "dave.joub...(a)googlemail.com"
<dave.joub...(a)googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 11, 10:30 pm, "tom.rmadilo" <tom.rmad...(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> > Anyone have more info on getting Tcl working with android scripting?
>
> No, but I will be setting up a Android toolchain on one my machines
> over the weekend. My first experiment will be just to take the jar
> files from Jacl and try to produce the required Android files.
> Hopefully if it coughs and dies it will give me some useful info (such
> as size limits).
>

I really can't imagine that it could be so low as to be unable to hold
10-15 megs, but a full tclkit might be too big (I've never looked at
the size). Hopefully you can run a reasonable sized app.

> As far as JSON is concerned, you only need dicts if you are doing
> something complicated, like building a JSON structure incrementally
> and then converting it to string just before sending it; JSON itself
> is simple enough that one can just build/parse the strings directly.
>
> http://www.json.org/example.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/json-rpc/web/json-rpc-1-2-proposal

I'm probably going to use my TWiST API and just add a different reader
(for input) and printer to replace XML. I use tDOM's toList as input,
so I just have to remove the attributes feature.

I put up a JSON text to Tcl list converter for my own testing, if
anyone wants to see what the Tcl format looks like:

http://junom.com/json/json.tcl

It also prints out debugging info on a char-by-char basis.

The parser only performs structural validation as I plan on using
TWiST for more complete validation. What is missing is that any one
word literal value passes through the parser. I may tighten this up to
reject the literals 'object' and 'array', since I use those as
metadata.

Assuming I get this working, it would provide a Tcl only JSON-RPC
server.
From: David N. Welton on 12 Sep 2009 04:37
On Sep 11, 4:37 pm, Gerry Snyder <mesmerizer...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> David N. Welton wrote:
> > ....
>
> > Speaking of which, I have a sponsor who is paying for a lot of work to
> > make Hecl nice on Blackberry devices.  Right now it's in the "do lots
> > of stuff" phase, which will be followed by the "put it in order and
> > document it and make it nice" phase.
>
> David,
>
> Thanks for the update. I had seen your earlier statement about an
> official port to BB, and was very interested, having just become a BB
> Tour owner.
>
> Any predicts on when things might be in shape for public trial?

Hecl on BB does run, but it's still in a state of flux. I bought a BB
code signing key, and am working on multiple API's, so that Hecl will
be able to take advantage of all the platform has to offer. I'm
guessing in October, more or less, but the more people chip in (which
can be as much as saying "look, it's not building right in this
situation"), the faster that will be.
From: Pat Thoyts on 14 Sep 2009 17:51
terryowen <terryo.ia(a)gmail.com> writes:

>On Sep 9, 9:38�am, "dave.joub...(a)googlemail.com"
><dave.joub...(a)googlemail.com> wrote:
>> I recently saw an Android scripting website,http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/
>> , and Tcl is unfortunately not on there. Is there any 'official'
>> project aimed at Tcl on Android ?
>>
>> Dave Joubert
>
>I added a request in the ASE issue tracker a while back for TCL but
>the last time I was there it hadn't been accepted or assigned.
>
>Back in January, there was an Evolane announcement that they had
>compiled eTcl for Android's specific ARM architecture but I downloaded
>the archive file and wasn't quite sure what to do with it... I have a
>rooted phone (CM rom 4.1.5) but am still somewhat clueless about
>native Linux apps. There are things you can do in certain terminals
>and not others and I can't seem to make the etcl files executable.
>

Tcl 8.6 can be compiled for arm-eabi- using the Android NDK if you
tweak the makefile a little. Adding in the vfs package and this gives
enough to run a zip based starpack file. I imagine this means that
hooking it into the ASE stuff will not be too hard.

However, ASE doesn't provide much access to the Android device at the
moment. You can't create a GUI for instance. Hecl however lets you
hook into Android quite completely as it has access to the java
classes. You can create a GUI in Hecl and call up any other Java
provided objects too. Its also lighter weight than ASE at the
moment. The Hecl Android demo application is 1.68 MB which is the
runtime plus a live interpter and some demo scripts. The ASE runtime
is 6MB with the scripts on the sdcard separately. This might be
because I have Python rather than Lua.

--
Pat Thoyts http://www.patthoyts.tk/
To reply, rot13 the return address or read the X-Address header.
PGP fingerprint 2C 6E 98 07 2C 59 C8 97 10 CE 11 E6 04 E0 B9 DD
From: dave.joubert on 15 Sep 2009 09:17
On Sep 9, 10:47 pm, "David N. Welton" <davidnwel...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yep, you have to install it. Just like anything else.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean, but the files that are generated by the
> above commands are standalone applications. Are you looking for
> something that can share scripts?
>

One of the reasons I prefer Tcl is that there is no compile/install
phase, but given the fact that the Android marketplace relies on the
developer delivering an apk file (and Hecl does this), I might have to
change my mind.

My focus is on getting the project done, and the language is mostly a
secondary issue (expect that I dislike certain languages (Perl, C++)
and would rather abandon the project than use them).

Does Hecl on the Android deliver the full Android programming model ?
ie Intents, IntentFilter, contentProvider, Broadcast receivers, access
to SQLite etc etc ?

Because the Android environment would be difficult to implement in the
client/server model I looked at, I have decided to put this on hold. I
experimented with this and while it is very doable, one would miss out
on the Android specific features.

My focus is on getting the project done, and the language is mostly a
secondary issue (except that I dislike certain languages (Perl, C++)
and would rather abandon the project that use them).

Dave
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