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From: Arny Krueger on 6 Oct 2009 11:58
<BJtheDJ(a)the.controls> wrote in message
news:p0jmc5dhpetri2iou27tphg3lpdo6nbvhh(a)4ax.com
> On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:41:03 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
> <arnyk(a)hotpop.com> wrote:
>
>> <bob(a)nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:ldukc55hsd4unkp9ag5t4aj4l4hh79n596(a)4ax.com
>>
>>> Perhaps you could fill me in on your actually speaker
>>> setup... do you only have a mono group on the ceiling
>>> and that's it?
>>
>> The central cluster is composed of 2 EV TL606AX (not DX)
>>
>> http://archives.telex.com/archives/EV/Speakers/EDS/TL606-606DX%20EDS.pdf
>
> According to the PDF in that link, that would be the
> TL606AX speaker which weighs (according to the PDF) 62
> pounds.

But you must not be able to read very well BJ. Didn't I say that there were
2 EV TL606AX.

> Rather less than a third of the 200 pounds of weight that
> you appear to to claim -"moving a 200# speaker system "

Now how BJ did you miss the well-known facts that:

(1) There are two TL606AX in the cluster.

(2) The cluster is also composed of two large horns and drivers.


All of these facts have either been posted here in the past few days, or
simply stand to reason.

???????????????????????

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/23606566.pdf

2365 CD horn weighs 25 pounds
2366 CD horn weighs 36 pounds

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2440.pdf

2440 500 Hz drivers weigh 24 pounds each (2)

Three 4x8 3/4 inch plywood for the superstructure:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Weight_of_Plywood

60 pounds each

(3) The cluster itself is composed of materials that hold it together. This
includes 3 full sheets 4 x 8 of 3/4 inch plywood, and a grille work with a
self-supporting wooden frame on 4 sides and bottom. I know that 2 full
sheets are used for the top and back of the cluster support, so the estimate
of the weight of 3 is if anything, low.

Let's do the math:

2 each TL606DX at 62 pounds each: 124 pounds
2365 CD horn 25 pounds
2366 CD horn 36 pounds
2 each 2440 at 24 pounds each 48 pounds
3 sheets of 3/4" plywood at 60 pounds ea 180 pounds

total 413 pounds.


OK, I was low by 50%. OTOH our esteemed poster BJ was complaining that I
was high based on his estimate of just 62 pounds. BJ must be a graduate of
the Gleason school of advanced math. ;-)

Thanks BJ for the opportunity to work this all out well in advance of when
I'll probably get the funding to actually move it.



From: Arny Krueger on 6 Oct 2009 13:35
<BJtheDJ(a)the.controls> wrote in message
news:gttmc516k0p6u0dsd4oaaqjt832mdjobnn(a)4ax.com

> I'm pretty certain that the cluster was not built and
> then hoisted into place

I was around when it was installed, and that is exactly what happened.

I saw it assembled on the floor. It was hoisted up, fastened in place, and
the hoist removed. If memory serves, the screw eye that was used to lift it
sticks through a hole in the ceiling into the above-ceiling area, which we
use to access the ceiling fixtures, etc.


From: George's Pro Sound Co. on 6 Oct 2009 14:32

<BJtheDJ(a)the.controls> wrote in message
news:a11nc5hgl6hn66lec4cq9shue1ki0jh6oa(a)4ax.com...
> On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 13:35:28 -0400, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk(a)hotpop.com>
> wrote:
>
>><BJtheDJ(a)the.controls> wrote in message
>>news:gttmc516k0p6u0dsd4oaaqjt832mdjobnn(a)4ax.com
>>
>>> I'm pretty certain that the cluster was not built and
>>> then hoisted into place
>>
>>I was around when it was installed, and that is exactly what happened.
>
> I stand corrected then; strikes me as a cackamamee way to do it though :)
> - and why on earth did they use plywood !sheets! to create a box rather
> than have a frame of 4x4 or 6x4 timbers which would have been a lot
> lighter?
>
> BJ

I normally use angle iron or steel bar for frame of clusters, when I am not
using atm flyware or mfg desinged rigging
even unistrut works well, I was taught by Community L&S how to create
hangware for the old rs880's with unistrut
George


From: Arny Krueger on 6 Oct 2009 15:05
"George's Pro Sound Co." <bmoas(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:C_udnXGBqYE8EVbXnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d(a)earthlink.com
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk(a)hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:TY-dncbsMcp84lbXnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>> <BJtheDJ(a)the.controls> wrote in message
>> news:gttmc516k0p6u0dsd4oaaqjt832mdjobnn(a)4ax.com
>>
>>> I'm pretty certain that the cluster was not built and
>>> then hoisted into place
>>
>> I was around when it was installed, and that is exactly
>> what happened. I saw it assembled on the floor. It was hoisted up,
>> fastened in place, and the hoist removed. If memory
>> serves, the screw eye that was used to lift it sticks
>> through a hole in the ceiling into the above-ceiling
>> area, which we use to access the ceiling fixtures, etc.
>
>
> then get up in the crawl space attach a winch and cable
> to the screweye(hopefully a forged shouldered and serial
> numbered eye bolt, not a screw eye) and get with the
> program

I'm not a rigger. Not licensed, not insured, not trained. If I did such a
thing people would rant and rave about it forever. Of course you will,
anyhow.


From: Arny Krueger on 6 Oct 2009 15:06
"George's Pro Sound Co." <bmoas(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:NL-dnWgScbQvFlbXnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d(a)earthlink.com
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk(a)hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:WcWdnawY7JiQ9FbXnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>> <BJtheDJ(a)the.controls> wrote in message
>> news:p0jmc5dhpetri2iou27tphg3lpdo6nbvhh(a)4ax.com
>>> On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:41:03 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
>>> <arnyk(a)hotpop.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <bob(a)nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ldukc55hsd4unkp9ag5t4aj4l4hh79n596(a)4ax.com
>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps you could fill me in on your actually speaker
>>>>> setup... do you only have a mono group on the ceiling
>>>>> and that's it?
>>>>
>>>> The central cluster is composed of 2 EV TL606AX (not
>>>> DX)
>>>> http://archives.telex.com/archives/EV/Speakers/EDS/TL606-606DX%20EDS.pdf
>>>
>>> According to the PDF in that link, that would be the
>>> TL606AX speaker which weighs (according to the PDF) 62
>>> pounds.
>>
>> But you must not be able to read very well BJ. Didn't I
>> say that there were 2 EV TL606AX.
>>
>>> Rather less than a third of the 200 pounds of weight
>>> that you appear to to claim -"moving a 200# speaker
>>> system "
>>
>> Now how BJ did you miss the well-known facts that:
>>
>> (1) There are two TL606AX in the cluster.
>>
>> (2) The cluster is also composed of two large horns and
>> drivers. All of these facts have either been posted here in the
>> past few days, or simply stand to reason.
>>
>> ???????????????????????
>>
>> http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/23606566.pdf
>>
>> 2365 CD horn weighs 25 pounds
>> 2366 CD horn weighs 36 pounds
>>
>> http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2440.pdf
>>
>> 2440 500 Hz drivers weigh 24 pounds each (2)
>>
>> Three 4x8 3/4 inch plywood for the superstructure:
>>
>> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Weight_of_Plywood
>>
>> 60 pounds each
>>
>> (3) The cluster itself is composed of materials that
>> hold it together. This includes 3 full sheets 4 x 8 of
>> 3/4 inch plywood, and a grille work with a
>> self-supporting wooden frame on 4 sides and bottom. I
>> know that 2 full sheets are used for the top and back of
>> the cluster support, so the estimate of the weight of 3
>> is if anything, low. Let's do the math:
>>
>> 2 each TL606DX at 62 pounds each: 124 pounds
>> 2365 CD horn 25 pounds 2366
>> CD horn 36 pounds 2 each 2440 at 24 pounds each
>> 48 pounds 3 sheets of 3/4" plywood at 60 pounds ea 180
>> pounds total 413 pounds.
>>
>>
>> OK, I was low by 50%. OTOH our esteemed poster BJ was
>> complaining that I was high based on his estimate of
>> just 62 pounds. BJ must be a graduate of the Gleason
>> school of advanced math. ;-) Thanks BJ for the opportunity to work this
>> all out well
>> in advance of when I'll probably get the funding to
>> actually move it.
>
> I can see arnii has never adjusted splays of a cluster
> before

Of course I haven't.

> there is no need to move more than one element at a time
> and you have a super structure supporting all the weight

Come and do it for free, George.


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