The Electric Car
in [Design]
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From: Eeyore on 3 Aug 2007 04:12 MooseFET wrote: > Eeyore wrote: > > JosephKK wrote: > > > Eeyore rabbitsfriendsandrelati...(a)hotmail.com posted > > > > MooseFET wrote: > > > >> Eeyore wrote: > > > > > >> > The current hybrids also use skinny tyres to reduce rolling > > > >> > resistance. I hate to think of the adverse effect on road > > > >> > holding. > > > > > >> There is basically no difference in the traction. Wide tires > > > >> look cool but below a certain amount of force per unit area of > > > >> rubber give > > > >> no traction advantage. The traction loss in thing tires is > > > >> because the force on the surface is high enough to rip bits of > > > >> the rubber or > > > >> the road loose. They modern materials in the tires are less > > > >> subject > > > >> to this problem. The cars we are talking about are quite light > > > >> too. > > > > > > I'm not talking about traction, I'm talking about road holding / > > > > handling. > > > > > And just how, exactly, do you separate the two (dealing with tires > > > only)? Both are ultimately limited by friction limits. > > > > Skinny tyres don't corner very well. > > Total nonsense! Exactly how do you think the skinny tires make the > car not corner. Exactly why do you think car's *aren't* fitted with skinny tyres ? Graham
From: MooseFET on 3 Aug 2007 08:54 On Aug 3, 1:10 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > MooseFET wrote: > > Eeyore wrote: > > > MooseFET wrote: > > > > Eeyore wrote: > > > > > > The current hybrids also use skinny tyres to reduce rolling resistance. I hate to think > > > > > of the adverse effect on road holding. > > > > > There is basically no difference in the traction. Wide tires look > > > > cool but below a certain amount of force per unit area of rubber give > > > > no traction advantage. The traction loss in thing tires is because > > > > the force on the surface is high enough to rip bits of the rubber or > > > > the road loose. They modern materials in the tires are less subject > > > > to this problem. The cars we are talking about are quite light too. > > > > I'm not talking about traction, I'm talking about road holding / handling. I know American roads don't have corners > (or at > > least from the way US cars drive you'd think that was the case) but we do here. > > > "Road holding" is the ability to "stay on the road" or "at the place > > on the road the driver wishes". If the tires are providing the needed > > traction and are stiff enough they have done their part of the job. > > Anything else is a suspension issue. > > > The thin tires work just fine. They may not look cool but they don't > > cause any problems. > > So why don't all cars run on thin tyres then ? > They can sell you the wide ones for extra money.
From: MooseFET on 3 Aug 2007 08:58 On Aug 1, 10:45 pm, Nobody <nob...(a)nowhere.com> wrote: [...] > Tyre width only matters when you get close to the limits of traction. It > doesn't affect total friction until the tyres start to distort > significantly and the force/area ratio exceeds the strength of the rubber. Modern tyres are not really just "rubber" anymore. They are mixtures of matherials that are harder to rip apart than pure rubber would be.
From: Eeyore on 3 Aug 2007 09:06 MooseFET wrote: > Eeyore wrote: > > MooseFET wrote: > > > Eeyore wrote: > > > > MooseFET wrote: > > > > > Eeyore wrote: > > > > > > > > The current hybrids also use skinny tyres to reduce rolling resistance. I hate to think > > > > > > of the adverse effect on road holding. > > > > > > > There is basically no difference in the traction. Wide tires look > > > > > cool but below a certain amount of force per unit area of rubber give > > > > > no traction advantage. The traction loss in thing tires is because > > > > > the force on the surface is high enough to rip bits of the rubber or > > > > > the road loose. They modern materials in the tires are less subject > > > > > to this problem. The cars we are talking about are quite light too. > > > > > > I'm not talking about traction, I'm talking about road holding / handling. I know American roads don't have > > > corners > > (or at least from the way US cars drive you'd think that was the case) but we do here. > > > > > "Road holding" is the ability to "stay on the road" or "at the place > > > on the road the driver wishes". If the tires are providing the needed > > > traction and are stiff enough they have done their part of the job. > > > Anything else is a suspension issue. > > > > > The thin tires work just fine. They may not look cool but they don't > > > cause any problems. > > > > So why don't all cars run on thin tyres then ? > > They can sell you the wide ones for extra money. I find that idea strangely unconvincing. Graham
From: MooseFET on 3 Aug 2007 09:11
On Aug 3, 1:12 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > MooseFET wrote: > > Eeyore wrote: > > > JosephKK wrote: > > > > Eeyore rabbitsfriendsandrelati...(a)hotmail.com posted > > > > > MooseFET wrote: > > > > >> Eeyore wrote: > > > > > >> > The current hybrids also use skinny tyres to reduce rolling > > > > >> > resistance. I hate to think of the adverse effect on road > > > > >> > holding. > > > > > >> There is basically no difference in the traction. Wide tires > > > > >> look cool but below a certain amount of force per unit area of > > > > >> rubber give > > > > >> no traction advantage. The traction loss in thing tires is > > > > >> because the force on the surface is high enough to rip bits of > > > > >> the rubber or > > > > >> the road loose. They modern materials in the tires are less > > > > >> subject > > > > >> to this problem. The cars we are talking about are quite light > > > > >> too. > > > > > > I'm not talking about traction, I'm talking about road holding / > > > > > handling. > > > > > And just how, exactly, do you separate the two (dealing with tires > > > > only)? Both are ultimately limited by friction limits. > > > > Skinny tyres don't corner very well. > > > Total nonsense! Exactly how do you think the skinny tires make the > > car not corner. > > Exactly why do you think car's *aren't* fitted with skinny tyres ? Because people will buy them. |