The Symmetric Twin Paradox
in [Relativity]
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From: colp on 19 Jun 2010 04:04 On Jun 19, 7:34 pm, "Inertial" <relativ...(a)rest.com> wrote: > "colp" <c...(a)solder.ath.cx> wrote in message > > news:3f27a5b2-6fe9-4f52-9d45-033de8e4f473(a)g39g2000pri.googlegroups.com... > > > > > On Jun 19, 3:27 am, Tom Roberts <tjroberts...(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> colp wrote: > >> > It is not necessary for me to showing you the math in order for you to > >> > identify the errors in the article. > > >> The basic error in that article is that they DID NOT use the math of SR. > > > That isn't necessarily an error. Can you show how their math resulted > > in coming to an incorrect conclusion? > > >> Instead > >> they used a comic-book description of SR such as "moving clocks run > >> slow" -- SR > >> does NOT say that; > > > The truth is not determined by what SR says > > The truth about what SR says IS determinets by what SR says Circular reasoning.
From: Inertial on 19 Jun 2010 04:08 "colp" <colp(a)solder.ath.cx> wrote in message news:97c45dd7-e152-4e3d-8197-42bc43980300(a)y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com... > On Jun 19, 7:31 pm, "Inertial" <relativ...(a)rest.com> wrote: >> "colp" <c...(a)solder.ath.cx> wrote in message >> >> news:ac2dcf58-a9be-491f-8b59-b30fcf0285b7(a)n37g2000prc.googlegroups.com... > >> > Here are the relevant logical elements that I have used in this >> > thread: >> >> > truth: SR predicts that each twin observes the other twin to age more >> > slowly both on the outgoing leg and the return leg. >> >> Yeup >> >> > truth: In no case does SR predict that a twin observes the other to >> > age more quickly. >> >> Nope. > > Then what do you think the circumstances are in which SR predicts that > a twin observes the other to age more quickly, and what mathematical > relationship quantifies this? > >> You could say the same in the usual twins paradox .. yes differences >> in synch make that happen and so the net effect is the one does age more >> quickly than the other. In the symmetric twin case the net effect is >> that >> the age the same as each other. > > In reality the twins age the same as each other, As SR predicts > but SR does not > predict that result WRONG > if you examine the experiment from the point of > view of either twin. WRONG Show the supposed SR analysis you claim does this. And don't just look at the two legs individually .. as in the usualy twins paradox, the main point is the change in rest reference frame at hte turnaround. ignore that, and its NOT SR.
From: Inertial on 19 Jun 2010 04:10 "colp" <colp(a)solder.ath.cx> wrote in message news:07f2de62-4ba9-4b1b-99cd-dd05c284d2fa(a)b3g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > On Jun 19, 7:32 pm, "Inertial" <relativ...(a)rest.com> wrote: >> "colp" <c...(a)solder.ath.cx> wrote in message >> >> news:3f27a5b2-6fe9-4f52-9d45-033de8e4f473(a)g39g2000pri.googlegroups.com... >> >> > On Jun 19, 3:27 am, Tom Roberts <tjroberts...(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >> colp wrote: >> >> > It is not necessary for me to showing you the math in order for you >> >> > to >> >> > identify the errors in the article. >> >> >> The basic error in that article is that they DID NOT use the math of >> >> SR. >> >> > That isn't necessarily an error. >> >> BAHAHAH .. Of course it is. How cam they show a contradiction in SR if >> they >> didn't USE SR. > > It depends on the context of the question. Nope > Yes, they used SR math to > show the contradiction in SR, Nope > but no, they didn't use SR math in > exploring possible solutions. No need .. SR gets it right .. they got SR math WRONG if they make the claims they are making. GO on .. show the math that support SR saying one twin is younger than the other after a mutual trip away, turnaround, and return. I keep asking and you keep ignoring it. Afraid? Or incapable? Show the math.
From: Inertial on 19 Jun 2010 04:11 "colp" <colp(a)solder.ath.cx> wrote in message news:81c945d7-ef5d-4905-bc17-ff691d4025fd(a)z15g2000prh.googlegroups.com... > On Jun 19, 7:34 pm, "Inertial" <relativ...(a)rest.com> wrote: >> "colp" <c...(a)solder.ath.cx> wrote in message >> >> news:3f27a5b2-6fe9-4f52-9d45-033de8e4f473(a)g39g2000pri.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> >> > On Jun 19, 3:27 am, Tom Roberts <tjroberts...(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >> colp wrote: >> >> > It is not necessary for me to showing you the math in order for you >> >> > to >> >> > identify the errors in the article. >> >> >> The basic error in that article is that they DID NOT use the math of >> >> SR. >> >> > That isn't necessarily an error. Can you show how their math resulted >> > in coming to an incorrect conclusion? >> >> >> Instead >> >> they used a comic-book description of SR such as "moving clocks run >> >> slow" -- SR >> >> does NOT say that; >> >> > The truth is not determined by what SR says >> >> The truth about what SR says IS determinets by what SR says > > Circular reasoning. Nope. Your LACK of reasoning. You say the truth of SR is determined by what SR does NOT say. SR does NOT say the twins are less than each other over the whole experiment .. it says they have the same ages.
From: harald on 19 Jun 2010 04:12
On Jun 19, 9:59 am, colp <c...(a)solder.ath.cx> wrote: > On Jun 19, 7:31 pm, "Inertial" <relativ...(a)rest.com> wrote: > > > "colp" <c...(a)solder.ath.cx> wrote in message > > >news:ac2dcf58-a9be-491f-8b59-b30fcf0285b7(a)n37g2000prc.googlegroups.com.... > > > Here are the relevant logical elements that I have used in this > > > thread: > > > > truth: SR predicts that each twin observes the other twin to age more > > > slowly both on the outgoing leg and the return leg. > > > Yeup > > > > truth: In no case does SR predict that a twin observes the other to > > > age more quickly. > > > Nope. > > Then what do you think the circumstances are in which SR predicts that > a twin observes the other to age more quickly, and what mathematical > relationship quantifies this? > > > You could say the same in the usual twins paradox .. yes differences > > in synch make that happen and so the net effect is the one does age more > > quickly than the other. In the symmetric twin case the net effect is that > > the age the same as each other. > > In reality the twins age the same as each other, but SR does not > predict that result if you examine the experiment from the point of > view of either twin. SR does predict that result; thus you made a calculation error. Show your calculation. Harald |