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From: Y.Porat on 9 May 2010 07:07
On May 8, 9:23 pm, Uncle Al <Uncle...(a)hate.spam.net> wrote:
> Michael Helland wrote:
>
> > There is no range for light.
>
> Infinite, just as for charge and gravitation.
>
> idiot
>
> > Obviously it seems to travel for about 14 billion years and then stops.
>
> Wait a billion years - it will be 15.
>
> idiot
>
> --
> Uncle Alhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
>  (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm

------------------
idiot !!
parrot
Y.P
--------------
From: Darwin123 on 9 May 2010 17:01
On May 7, 4:47 pm, Michael Helland <mobyd...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 7, 1:39 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 5/7/10 3:34 PM, Michael Helland wrote:

> Except you believe the CMB is a remnant of the Big Bang,
Technically, CMB is not the remnant of the Big Bang. Technically,
it the remnant of the "Big Transparency Event" (BTE).
After the big bang, photons couldn't travel very far before they
collided with a freely moving electrically charge particle. The gases
were plasmas of various types, depending on temperature, which
wouldn't allow electromagnetic radiation to travel freely.
BTE occurred about 300 KY after the Big Bang. The temperature of
the universe had become small enough for electrons to bind to protons,
forming neutral hydrogen atoms. At that point, the gases stopped being
plasmas. They allowed electromagnetic radiation to travel freely.
Stars and galaxies couldn't form before BTE because the heat was
distributed uniformly. After BTE, regions with high gas concentration
could rapidly cool down by emitting electromagnetic radiation. By
cooling down, the gas allowed gravity to compress them forming stars
and galaxies. At least, that is the conventional wisdom.
CMB is evidence for BB only indirectly. CMB is direct evidence
for BTE. It used to be thought that the BTE could only occur if the BB
occurred. I am getting the impression that astronomers are no longer
so sure. So stay tuned |:-)
I seriously doubt that CMB is caused by "tired light", as you
suggest. If different galaxies emitted CMB, and the photons somehow
lost energy by getting tired, the CMB would not match a Planck
distribution. It would have far more complexity, and far more
features.
My skepticism is whether BB has to precede BTE. Many current
models hold that the BB was not as simple as previously believed. I
think the Compton Observatory is going to teach us a lot of things. BB
may very well be wrong. However, BTE is relatively safe |:-)
From: Sam Wormley on 9 May 2010 21:59
On 5/7/10 3:47 PM, Michael Helland wrote:

>
> Except you believe the CMB is a remnant of the Big Bang, where I
> believe they are just light at the very end of their range, and
> constantly being created by the horribly faint galaxies at the edge of
> our Hubble Sphere.
>
> Thank you, Sam, for pointing out yet another different prediction of
> my model versus the Big Bang.
>
>
>> Two of the know fundamental forces in nature electromagnetic and
>> gravity have infinite range. There is no evidence to the contrary
>> and copious evidence in support.
>
> There is plenty of evidence to support light has a finite range.
>
> The Hubble limit is a hodge-podge attempt at it.

Lots of people confuse what the CMB represents. As you read this
looks ath this diagram:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0603/CMB_Timeline300.jpg

The CMB is about as perfect a black body spectrum as one could hope
for. It is radiation (shifted by cosmic expansion) for a time about
380,000 after the BB when light decoupled from matter in the expanding
cooling universe.

It does not have the spectra of starlight.

"The FIRAS data are independently recalibrated using the WMAP data
to obtain a CMB temperature of 2.7260 +/- 0.0013. Measurements of
the temperature of the cosmic microwave background are reviewed.
The determination from the measurements from the literature is
cosmic microwave background temperature of 2.72548 +/- 0.00057 K".

No Center
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/nocenter.html
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/infpoint.html

Also see Ned Wright's Cosmology Tutorial
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/CosmoCalc.html

WMAP: Foundations of the Big Bang theory
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni.html

WMAP: Tests of Big Bang Cosmology
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest.html

From: Sam Wormley on 9 May 2010 22:10
On 5/9/10 4:55 AM, Michael Helland wrote:
> v = HD
>
> when v = c, there is something going on.
>
> What do you call it?

It's called our cosmological horizon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observable_universe#Cosmological_horizon
From: PD on 11 May 2010 14:02
On May 7, 3:47 pm, Michael Helland <mobyd...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 7, 1:39 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 5/7/10 3:34 PM, Michael Helland wrote:
>
> > > There is no range for light.
>
> > > Obviously it seems to travel for about 14 billion years and then stops.
>
> >    No--Use your head. There were plenty of CMB photon out there in the
> >    past. There are plenty now and there will be plenty in the future.
>
> Except you believe the CMB is a remnant of the Big Bang, where I
> believe they are just light at the very end of their range, and
> constantly being created by the horribly faint galaxies at the edge of
> our Hubble Sphere.
>
> Thank you, Sam, for pointing out yet another different prediction of
> my model versus the Big Bang.
>
> >    Two of the know fundamental forces in nature electromagnetic and
> >    gravity have infinite range. There is no evidence to the contrary
> >    and copious evidence in support.
>
> There is plenty of evidence to support light has a finite range.

But is there an experimental test that would distinguish this model
from other prevailing models? Remember, having an "alternative
explanation" for a set of experimental data already consistent with
other models is scientifically useless.

>
> The Hubble limit is a hodge-podge attempt at it.

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