The gravitational field as a preferred frame
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From: BURT on 9 Jun 2010 15:31 On Jun 7, 11:04 pm, Surfer <n...(a)spam.net> wrote: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background-independent > > <Start extract> > > The resolution to the hole argument (mainly taken from Rovelli's book) > is as follows. As GR does not determine the distance between spacetime > points, how the gravitational and matter fields are located over > spacetime, and so the values they take at spacetime points, can have > no physical meaning. What GR does determine, however, are the mutual > relations that exist between the gravitational field and the matter > fields (i.e. the value the gravitational field takes where the matter > field takes such and such value). From these mutual relations we can > form a notion of matter being located with respect to the > gravitational field and vice-versa, (see Rovelli's for exposition). > What Einstein discovered was that physical entities are located with > respect to one another only, independent of the spacetime manifold. > This independence is background independence. > > Since the Hole Argument is a direct consequence of the general > covariance of GR, this led Einstein to state: > > "That this requirement of general covariance, which takes away from > space and time the last remnant of physical objectivity, is a natural > one, ..."[3] > > <End extract> > > If one accepts the above statements, then motion cannot be relative to > space or the spacetime manifold, as the latter were understood by > Einstein. > > However, if we consider the phrase, > > "....From these mutual relations we can form a notion of matter being > located with respect to the gravitational field and vice-versa..." > > then it is clear that matter can be in motion relative to the > gravitational field, which if considered to be a preferred frame, > would allow such motion to be considered absolute motion. > > Even more interesting however is that if Einstein's concept of space > has had taken away from it "the last remnant of physical objectivity", > how are we to explain the obvious fact that we move around in 3 > dimensional space all the time? > > Isn't the fact that we can do so, sufficient evidence of the physical > objectivity of 3-dimensional space? > > Putting two and two together, there seems only one way to reconcile > these notions. > > If the space, time and spacetime manifold of GR lack physical > objectivity, then the 3-dimensional space that we experience as > physically objective, must be synonymous with the gravitational field. > > It then follows that absolute motion relative to the field is > synonymous with absolute motion relative to this physically objective > space. > > Surfer Gravity or curved space - and slow time is geometrically round or globally spherical. The curve is round and closed. Mitch Raemsch
From: BURT on 9 Jun 2010 22:17 The geometry center of energy density and space curve sets up the gravity frame in terms of distance covered in space by energy flowing through it. Mitch Raemsch
From: YBM on 9 Jun 2010 22:23 BURT a �crit : > The geometry center of energy density and space curve sets up the > gravity frame in terms of distance covered in space by energy flowing > through it. The space center of gravity distance and space flow sets up the energy frame in terms of density covered in geometry by energy curving through it.
From: mpc755 on 10 Jun 2010 01:40 On Jun 8, 10:44 pm, xxein <xx...(a)comcast.net> wrote: > On Jun 8, 6:08 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jun 8, 2:04 am, Surfer <n...(a)spam.net> wrote: > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background-independent > > > > <Start extract> > > > > The resolution to the hole argument (mainly taken from Rovelli's book) > > > is as follows. As GR does not determine the distance between spacetime > > > points, how the gravitational and matter fields are located over > > > spacetime, and so the values they take at spacetime points, can have > > > no physical meaning. What GR does determine, however, are the mutual > > > relations that exist between the gravitational field and the matter > > > fields (i.e. the value the gravitational field takes where the matter > > > field takes such and such value). From these mutual relations we can > > > form a notion of matter being located with respect to the > > > gravitational field and vice-versa, (see Rovelli's for exposition). > > > What Einstein discovered was that physical entities are located with > > > respect to one another only, independent of the spacetime manifold. > > > This independence is background independence. > > > > Since the Hole Argument is a direct consequence of the general > > > covariance of GR, this led Einstein to state: > > > > "That this requirement of general covariance, which takes away from > > > space and time the last remnant of physical objectivity, is a natural > > > one, ..."[3] > > > > <End extract> > > > > If one accepts the above statements, then motion cannot be relative to > > > space or the spacetime manifold, as the latter were understood by > > > Einstein. > > > > However, if we consider the phrase, > > > > "....From these mutual relations we can form a notion of matter being > > > located with respect to the gravitational field and vice-versa..." > > > > then it is clear that matter can be in motion relative to the > > > gravitational field, which if considered to be a preferred frame, > > > would allow such motion to be considered absolute motion. > > > > Even more interesting however is that if Einstein's concept of space > > > has had taken away from it "the last remnant of physical objectivity", > > > how are we to explain the obvious fact that we move around in 3 > > > dimensional space all the time? > > > > Isn't the fact that we can do so, sufficient evidence of the physical > > > objectivity of 3-dimensional space? > > > > Putting two and two together, there seems only one way to reconcile > > > these notions. > > > > If the space, time and spacetime manifold of GR lack physical > > > objectivity, then the 3-dimensional space that we experience as > > > physically objective, must be synonymous with the gravitational field.. > > > > It then follows that absolute motion relative to the field is > > > synonymous with absolute motion relative to this physically objective > > > space. > > > > Surfer > > > 'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html > > > "the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections > > with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places, ... > > disregarding the causes which condition its state." > > > The state of the aether as determined by its connections with the > > matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the > > aether's state of displacement. > > > The aether is not at rest when displaced. > > The aether 'displaces back'. > > The 'displacing back' is the pressure exerted by the aether. > > Gravity is pressure exerted by displaced aether towards matter. > > xxein: Now you are getting close. 'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein' http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html "the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places, ... disregarding the causes which condition its state." The state of the aether as determined by its connections with the matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the aether's state of displacement. Aether and matter are different states of the same material. The material is mæther. Mæther has mass. Aether and matter have mass. Aether is uncompressed mæther and matter is compressed mæther. Aether is displaced by matter. The aether is not at rest when displaced and 'displaces back'. The 'displacing back' is the pressure exerted by the aether. Gravity is pressure exerted by displaced aether towards matter. A moving C-60 molecule has an associated aether displacement wave. The C-60 molecule enters and exits a single slit. The aether wave enters and exits multiple slits. The aether wave creates interference upon exiting the slits which alters the direction the C-60 molecule travels. Detecting the C-60 molecule causes decoherence of the aether wave and there is no interference. 'DOES THE INERTIA OF A BODY DEPEND UPON ITS ENERGY-CONTENT? By A. EINSTEIN' http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf "If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass diminishes by L/c2." The mass of the body does diminish, but the matter which no longer exists as part of the body has not vanished. It still exists, as aether. As the matter transitions to aether it expands in three dimensions. The effect this transition has on the surrounding aether and matter is energy. Mass does not convert to energy. Matter converts to aether. As the mæther transitions from matter to aether it increases in volume. The physical effect the increase in volume has on the neighboring matter and aether is energy. The physical effect of mæther decompressing is energy. Mass is conserved. The rate at which an atomic clock 'ticks' is based upon the aether pressure in which it exists. In terms of motion, the speed of a GPS satellite with respect to the aether causes it to displace more aether and for that aether to exert more pressure on the clock in the GPS satellite than the aether pressure associated with a clock at rest with respect to the Earth. This causes the GPS satellite clock to "result in a delay of about 7 ìs/day". The aether pressure associated with the aether displaced by the Earth exerts less pressure on the GPS satellite than a similar clock at rest on the Earth" causing the GPS clocks to appear faster by about 45 ìs/day". The aether pressure associated with the speed at which the GPS satellite moves with respect to the aether and the aether pressure associated with the aether displaced by the Earth causes "clocks on the GPS satellites [to] tick approximately 38 ìs/day faster than clocks on the ground." (quoted text from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_relativity_on_GPS). 'The Need to Understand Mass' By Roger Cashmore Department of Physics University of Oxford, UK. http://www.phy.uct.ac.za/courses/phy400w/particle/higgs2.htm "There is, however, one very clever and very elegant solution to this problem, a solution first proposed by Peter Higgs. He proposed that the whole of space is permeated by a field, similar in some ways to the electromagnetic field. As particles move through space they travel through this field, and if they interact with it they acquire what appears to be mass. This is similar to the action of viscous forces felt by particles moving through any thick liquid. the larger the interaction of the particles with the field, the more mass they appear to have. Thus the existence of this field is essential in Higg's hypothesis for the production of the mass of particles." The "action of viscous forces felt by particles moving through any thick liquid" is the particles interaction with the aether. The force is the pressure exerted by the displaced aether towards the particle. The "thick liquid" is the aether behaving as a frictionless superfluid 'one something'. "the larger the interaction of the particles with the field, the more mass they appear to have." The faster the particle moves with respect to the aether, the greater the pressure exerted by the displaced aether towards the particle. 'Politics, Solid State and the Higgs' By David Miller Department of Physics and Astronomy University College, London, UK. http://www.phy.uct.ac.za/courses/phy400w/particle/higgs3.htm "1. The Higgs Mechanism In three dimensions, and with the complications of relativity, this is the Higgs mechanism. In order to give particles mass, a background field is invented which becomes locally distorted whenever a particle moves through it. The distortion - the clustering of the field around the particle - generates the particle's mass. The idea comes directly from the physics of solids. Instead of a field spread throughout all space a solid contains a lattice of positively charged crystal atoms. When an electron moves through the lattice the atoms are attracted to it, causing the electron's effective mass to be as much as 40 times bigger than the mass of a free electron." The distortion of the background field is the displacement of the aether by the moving particle. The 'clustering' of the field around the particle is the 'displacing back'. The 'clustering' of the field is the pressure exerted by the displaced aether towards the particle. "The idea comes directly from the physics of solids." The aether behaves as a frictionless superfluid 'one something'.
From: eric gisse on 10 Jun 2010 03:46
YBM wrote: > BURT a �crit : >> The geometry center of energy density and space curve sets up the >> gravity frame in terms of distance covered in space by energy flowing >> through it. > > The space center of gravity distance and space flow sets up the > energy frame in terms of density covered in geometry by energy curving > through it. Its' just easier to ignore the white noise generator. He's intellectual static, easy to tune out. |