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From: Roy A. on 3 Apr 2010 16:16
On 3 apr, 17:34, Albert Ross <s...(a)devnull.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Apr 2010 16:23:44 -0400, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
>
> <a.nony.m...(a)example.invalid> wrote:
> >Albert Ross wrote:
>
> >> [1] Matthew James Taylor's 3 column template is one of the best I've
> >> found, but is in xhtml. The rest of it is in html 4.0
>
> >> Would you convert one to t'other or not bother?
>
> >I don't see what might be called "html 4.0" in Matthew's template.
>
> No the html 4.0 is in the photo galleries
>
> >What
> >I would do (and did, preparing a template for a friend) is change the
> >doctype to:
>
> ><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
> >   "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
>
> >and change all those " />" to just ">". That should do it - then you
> >won't be accused of sending XHTML as text/html.
>
> Yes that's probably what I'll end up doing. It's been a bit of a brain
> ache using xhtml but useful discipline. Can't get away with my
> customary typos so easily!
>
> The majority of templates people write are in xhtml but I'm
> unconvinced of its benefits

xHTML can be delivered as XHTML (application/xhtml+xml). If you have
data from other sources than directly from a database, XML is handy to
use for interoperability.

<http://www.w3.org/standards/xml/>
<http://www.php.net/manual/en/refs.xml.php>

To me it make no sense to use SGML syntax. What are the benefits of
that? SGML is dead.
From: Albert Ross on 6 Apr 2010 12:59
On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 06:07:12 +1000, dorayme <dorayme(a)optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

>In article <slrnhre1gs.3r7.spamspam(a)bowser.marioworld>,
> Ben C <spamspam(a)spam.eggs> wrote:
>
>> On 2010-04-02, dorayme <dorayme(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> [...]
>> > Yes, I can see attempts but the problem with your #header ul is
>> > the float. Once you have that, you shoot yourself in the foot for
>> > your real aim. Get rid of it and simply keep your auto margins
>> > (just margin:auto is simpler btw) and no good having width 100%
>> > (what would be left to auto margin?)
>>
>> The overflow caused by the padding and borders quite possibly. Auto left
>> and right margins will then result in centered overflowing if you see
>> what I mean.
>
>I am actually completely rewriting my piece on centering and
>there is a longish section half written on margins and paddings
>and borders. Will take note of this interesting thought of yours
>when returning to it.

That would be good, I'm reading (and rereading) your current thoughts.
And FloatHouse.

There's something slightly freaky I don't quite understand here, I can
put anything except an ul in the header and get it centred.

Now I've taken the navbar and given it its own div so I can play with
it unfettered by other things which may or may not be tripping it up.
As before I can get it floating or centred but not yet both.

(I've not uploaded the updated code yet, not even the updates I forgot
to upload the other day (!) I'll see if I can grok what is happening
or not locally before I finish mending the site)
From: dorayme on 6 Apr 2010 15:08
In article <qjpmr5d8js040mrl9l9vl59m4n91ag2e2c(a)4ax.com>,
Albert Ross <spam(a)devnull.co.uk.invalid> wrote:


> >> On 2010-04-02, dorayme <dorayme(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> >> [...]
> >> > Yes, I can see attempts but the problem with your #header ul is
> >> > the float. Once you have that, you shoot yourself in the foot for
> >> > your real aim. Get rid of it and simply keep your auto margins
> >> > (just margin:auto is simpler btw) and no good having width 100%
> >> > (what would be left to auto margin?)
> >>
....
>
> There's something slightly freaky I don't quite understand here, I can
> put anything except an ul in the header and get it centred.
>

I need to be reminded of the url and a more specific description
of what you are finding freaky. I am prepared to pay a lot of
money for this information, I don't care if it sends me
completely broke. It is a tale I can tell to entertain my future
living-on-the-street-down-and-out 'colleagues'.

<http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/justPics/htmlWorkWanted.jpg>

--
dorayme
From: Albert Ross on 7 Apr 2010 11:38
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 05:08:56 +1000, dorayme <dorayme(a)optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

>In article <qjpmr5d8js040mrl9l9vl59m4n91ag2e2c(a)4ax.com>,
> Albert Ross <spam(a)devnull.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>> There's something slightly freaky I don't quite understand here, I can
>> put anything except an ul in the header and get it centred.
>>
>
>I need to be reminded of the url and a more specific description
>of what you are finding freaky. I am prepared to pay a lot of
>money for this information, I don't care if it sends me
>completely broke. It is a tale I can tell to entertain my future
>living-on-the-street-down-and-out 'colleagues'.
>
><http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/justPics/htmlWorkWanted.jpg>

That was YOU??? <G>

I started with Matthew James Taylor's otherwise excellent template and
tried to adjust it so the navbar was centred

http://www.combines.org.uk/Combines/about.html

that was a much earlier failure

I put the navbar into a separate div and toyed with adding his css
code a bit at a time, and blocking out lines with Firebug.

Somewhere around here

#header ul li a {
display:block;
float:left;
margin:0 0 0 1px;
padding:3px 10px;
text-align:center;
background:#eee;
color:#000;
text-decoration:none;
position:relative;
left:15px;
line-height:1.3em;
}

everything snaps over to the left and stays there whatever I try to
undo the effect

I ended up doing this

http://www.combines.org.uk/Combines/trial.html

much simpler and works. problem solved (except to clean up the code
and convert to html 4 strict) I'm just left with the intellectual
exercise of trying to understand why I don't understand his code
From: Jeff Thies on 7 Apr 2010 16:16
Roy A. wrote:
> On 3 apr, 17:34, Albert Ross <s...(a)devnull.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>> On Fri, 2 Apr 2010 16:23:44 -0400, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
>>
>> <a.nony.m...(a)example.invalid> wrote:
>>> Albert Ross wrote:
>>>> [1] Matthew James Taylor's 3 column template is one of the best I've
>>>> found, but is in xhtml. The rest of it is in html 4.0
>>>> Would you convert one to t'other or not bother?
>>> I don't see what might be called "html 4.0" in Matthew's template.
>> No the html 4.0 is in the photo galleries
>>
>>> What
>>> I would do (and did, preparing a template for a friend) is change the
>>> doctype to:
>>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
>>> "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
>>> and change all those " />" to just ">". That should do it - then you
>>> won't be accused of sending XHTML as text/html.
>> Yes that's probably what I'll end up doing. It's been a bit of a brain
>> ache using xhtml but useful discipline. Can't get away with my
>> customary typos so easily!
>>
>> The majority of templates people write are in xhtml but I'm
>> unconvinced of its benefits
>
> xHTML can be delivered as XHTML (application/xhtml+xml). If you have
> data from other sources than directly from a database, XML is handy to
> use for interoperability.

Interoperability?

Who is doing this and why don't they worry about how it is displayed.
Last time I checked this was risky business for results that could be
done otherwise.

Pointed Ears sig puts it this way:

realism: HTML 4.01 Strict
evangelism: XHTML 1.0 Strict
madness: XHTML 1.1 as application/xhtml+xml

I'm more interested in HTML5.

Show me the error of my ways.

Jeff

>
> <http://www.w3.org/standards/xml/>
> <http://www.php.net/manual/en/refs.xml.php>
>
> To me it make no sense to use SGML syntax. What are the benefits of
> that? SGML is dead.
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