Try this again: is Linux Linpus any good?
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From: Stefan Patric on 2 Jun 2010 15:04 On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 10:00:19 -0400, despen wrote: > Stefan Patric <not(a)this.address.com> writes: > >> I'm >> tiring of Fedora's short life cycle even though since FC6 I've only >> upgraded every third release. I want to install an OS once and have it >> live on the system for 5 to 7 years--the average time between my system >> builds--with updates, of course. > > Since FC 8, I've upgraded to 9, 10, 11, 12 simply using yum to apply > release updates. It's gotten steadily easier. 11 and 12 applied with > no issues at all. You missed the point. I don't care how "easy" it is. I tire of doing it. Even every 15 months or so, that is, every third release. And if you didn't have problems after every release upgrade, you're one of the lucky ones. Plus, upgrading destroys the old system. For safety, I only do clean installs on separate partitions, keeping the last release as a bootable back up just in case. I would prefer if Fedora went to "rolling upgrades" where as you update at some point the current release becomes the next. Nothing special need be done. There has been discussion of this on the Fedora forums, but so far, it's only been said by the developers that it is "being considered" which means it probably won't be implemented. Stef
From: General Schvantzkoph on 2 Jun 2010 15:59 On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 19:04:28 +0000, Stefan Patric wrote: > On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 10:00:19 -0400, despen wrote: > >> Stefan Patric <not(a)this.address.com> writes: >> >>> I'm >>> tiring of Fedora's short life cycle even though since FC6 I've only >>> upgraded every third release. I want to install an OS once and have >>> it live on the system for 5 to 7 years--the average time between my >>> system builds--with updates, of course. >> >> Since FC 8, I've upgraded to 9, 10, 11, 12 simply using yum to apply >> release updates. It's gotten steadily easier. 11 and 12 applied with >> no issues at all. > > You missed the point. I don't care how "easy" it is. I tire of doing > it. Even every 15 months or so, that is, every third release. > > And if you didn't have problems after every release upgrade, you're one > of the lucky ones. > > Plus, upgrading destroys the old system. For safety, I only do clean > installs on separate partitions, keeping the last release as a bootable > back up just in case. > > I would prefer if Fedora went to "rolling upgrades" where as you update > at some point the current release becomes the next. Nothing special > need be done. There has been discussion of this on the Fedora forums, > but so far, it's only been said by the developers that it is "being > considered" which means it probably won't be implemented. > > Stef A rolling update would be fine assuming that you could go backwards and forwards on individual components. That's a very hard problem because there are so many inter-dependencies. Over the years I've stuck with a particular Fedora release longer than I would have liked because there was some important application that was broken in newer releases. The last thing you want to happen is to lose some critical program because an update replaced it with a newer broken version. The current release system gives you check points that you can always return to.
From: despen on 2 Jun 2010 17:24 Stefan Patric <not(a)this.address.com> writes: > On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 10:00:19 -0400, despen wrote: > >> Stefan Patric <not(a)this.address.com> writes: >> >>> I'm >>> tiring of Fedora's short life cycle even though since FC6 I've only >>> upgraded every third release. I want to install an OS once and have it >>> live on the system for 5 to 7 years--the average time between my system >>> builds--with updates, of course. >> >> Since FC 8, I've upgraded to 9, 10, 11, 12 simply using yum to apply >> release updates. It's gotten steadily easier. 11 and 12 applied with >> no issues at all. > > You missed the point. I don't care how "easy" it is. I tire of doing > it. Even every 15 months or so, that is, every third release. I think you missed the point. Going to a new release is no different than applying updates. "preupgrade" changes the repositories, then yum update finishes the job. It takes longer, but it's the same process. Start it in the evening, wake up in the AM and you're on a new release. > And if you didn't have problems after every release upgrade, you're one > of the lucky ones. As I remember, the first 2 gave me some package conflicts, easily resolved. The last 2 were issue free. I don't think that was an accident. When the "preupgrade" tool appeared I realized this has been tested. > Plus, upgrading destroys the old system. For safety, I only do clean > installs on separate partitions, keeping the last release as a bootable > back up just in case. You are missing the point. upgrading is using the same process as updating. It does not "destroy" the system. > I would prefer if Fedora went to "rolling upgrades" where as you update > at some point the current release becomes the next. Nothing special need > be done. There has been discussion of this on the Fedora forums, but so > far, it's only been said by the developers that it is "being considered" > which means it probably won't be implemented. Disagree. It's there now, and will only get better.
From: Stefan Patric on 2 Jun 2010 23:38 On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 19:59:23 +0000, General Schvantzkoph wrote: > On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 19:04:28 +0000, Stefan Patric wrote: > >> [snip] >> I would prefer if Fedora went to "rolling upgrades" where as you update >> at some point the current release becomes the next. Nothing special >> need be done. There has been discussion of this on the Fedora forums, >> but so far, it's only been said by the developers that it is "being >> considered" which means it probably won't be implemented. >> >> Stef > > A rolling update would be fine assuming that you could go backwards and > forwards on individual components. That's a very hard problem because > there are so many inter-dependencies. Over the years I've stuck with a That problem/ability was discussed recently on the Fedora forum (in conjunction with rolling updates), but it seems that yum, the Fedora package manager, already has that ability (though somewhat simplisticly) to "rollback" an update to a earlier version. However, it's is not perfected. > particular Fedora release longer than I would have liked because there > was some important application that was broken in newer releases. The > last thing you want to happen is to lose some critical program because > an update replaced it with a newer broken version. The current release > system gives you check points that you can always return to. You can exclude the updating of anything you want, but it can cause dependency issues. Usually, the transaction analysis checks for those problems, and it's gotten very good at it, too. Stef
From: Stefan Patric on 3 Jun 2010 02:08 On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 17:24:36 -0400, despen wrote: > Stefan Patric <not(a)this.address.com> writes: > >> On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 10:00:19 -0400, despen wrote: >> >>> Stefan Patric <not(a)this.address.com> writes: >>> >>>> I'm >>>> tiring of Fedora's short life cycle even though since FC6 I've only >>>> upgraded every third release. I want to install an OS once and have >>>> it live on the system for 5 to 7 years--the average time between my >>>> system builds--with updates, of course. >>> >>> Since FC 8, I've upgraded to 9, 10, 11, 12 simply using yum to apply >>> release updates. It's gotten steadily easier. 11 and 12 applied with >>> no issues at all. >> >> You missed the point. I don't care how "easy" it is. I tire of doing >> it. Even every 15 months or so, that is, every third release. > > I think you missed the point. > Going to a new release is no different than applying updates. The point is I want at OS that is supported longer than 13 months that I don't have to change to a new release every year to stay current with the "improvements" of the 'net. That's why I'm looking for an alternative to Fedora. > "preupgrade" changes the repositories, then yum update finishes the job. Yes, I know what preupgrade does. And it is a great improvement over the old method, but it's not without flaws. So, I'll continue to keep my old install as a back up and do a clean install of the new system on separate partitions. > It takes longer, but it's the same process. Start it in the evening, > wake up in the AM and you're on a new release. If it were that easy. It takes me about 3 or 4 weeks to get the "problems" fixed and everything running smoothly after a new install. And from what's being posted on the Fedora forum, preupgraders from 12 to 13 aren't fairing any better. >> And if you didn't have problems after every release upgrade, you're one >> of the lucky ones. > > As I remember, the first 2 gave me some package conflicts, easily > resolved. The last 2 were issue free. I don't think that was an > accident. When the "preupgrade" tool appeared I realized this has been > tested. Yes. You're one of the lucky ones. >> Plus, upgrading destroys the old system. For safety, I only do clean >> installs on separate partitions, keeping the last release as a bootable >> back up just in case. > > You are missing the point. upgrading is using the same process as > updating. It does not "destroy" the system. Of course, it does. Upgrading is like doing a clean install over the old install. The old install is gone, wiped away. Upgrade 12->13? 12's gone, baby. The only thing that isn't changed or touched is the user data and personal user settings in /home, and some admin settings like for local networks, hosts, etc. However, I'd still recommend backing up everything just in case. >> I would prefer if Fedora went to "rolling upgrades" where as you update >> at some point the current release becomes the next. Nothing special >> need be done. There has been discussion of this on the Fedora forums, >> but so far, it's only been said by the developers that it is "being >> considered" which means it probably won't be implemented. > > Disagree. It's there now, and will only get better. I should have said "rolling updates." Which is not implemented. And that is direct from Fedora development via the Fedora Users Forum. Stef
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