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From: JClark on 25 Nov 2009 06:50
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:21:07 -0500, JClark <jclark(a)nomail.invalid>
wrote:

>>try UVCView
Links to the UVC view output:

https://secure.storegate.com/user/share.aspx?id=bb71ac5c-81a7-49b5-a630-d7a20e5ca057

https://secure.storegate.com/user/share.aspx?id=96feec04-930a-485e-9889-a9be88d8df3c

Don't know what it means, but thanks again for help.
A couple of more thoughts:
I've just restarted the computer 4 times. Consistently, the USB mouse,
plugged into a USB outlet on the IO plate, is not recognized at the
time the Welcome screen appears. I unplug it and replug it, the
optical light in the mouse comes on, and it works fine.

I'm beginning to wonder if this could be BIOS related? Since I've
reset just about everything in BIOS numerous times, I'm wondering if
it might be a useful "test" to revert back to an earlier BIOS version?
Am I just grasping, or does that make any sense?

Many thanks!

Jack
From: Paul on 25 Nov 2009 12:49
JClark wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:21:07 -0500, JClark <jclark(a)nomail.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>> try UVCView
> Links to the UVC view output:
>
> https://secure.storegate.com/user/share.aspx?id=bb71ac5c-81a7-49b5-a630-d7a20e5ca057
>
> https://secure.storegate.com/user/share.aspx?id=96feec04-930a-485e-9889-a9be88d8df3c
>
> Don't know what it means, but thanks again for help.
> A couple of more thoughts:
> I've just restarted the computer 4 times. Consistently, the USB mouse,
> plugged into a USB outlet on the IO plate, is not recognized at the
> time the Welcome screen appears. I unplug it and replug it, the
> optical light in the mouse comes on, and it works fine.
>
> I'm beginning to wonder if this could be BIOS related? Since I've
> reset just about everything in BIOS numerous times, I'm wondering if
> it might be a useful "test" to revert back to an earlier BIOS version?
> Am I just grasping, or does that make any sense?
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Jack

If you click on the USB Human Interface Device entry, the pane on the right
would show the details for the device. Sometimes, if you examine that pane,
you'll see there are no "end points" set up, which means there was a problem
during device setup. The pane also contains info so you can verify whether
a device is running at USB 1.1 or 2.0, or the device is capable of
running 2.0. You need some info off the web, to decode the rest of it.
Googling some of the items on the right, may dig up the articles
with decoding info. I don't see the article I'm looking for, in my bookmarks
right now.

(Some background info, for when you're bored)

http://www.totalphase.com/support/articles/article20/

http://www.lvr.com/usbcenum.htm

So at least in terms of what I've seen so far, the logic blocks are there,
and seem to match the info shown in the ATI Southbridge document. Six
ports per USB2 controller. Three ports per USB 1.1 controller.

If you wanted to examine the USB mouse using UVCView, while it was in
the "non-working" state, you'd need to use a second mouse. You'd have
to be pretty clever, to be able to get to that point using nothing
but a keyboard. You can have multiple mice connected, and all of their
input is combined. So if you needed to start the program, and examine
the info there, a second mouse might work. I've used multiple input
devices on Windows, and Windows handles them pretty well.

In the past, when a person had a problem with device detection,
a workaround (not a cure), was to play with the power supply
feeding the USB header. In years past, each pair of USB ports
could be set to either run from +5V or +5VSB. +5V is interrupted
when you do a "soft-off" at the end of the day, while the +5VSB keeps
running. If the problem is one of keeping the errant USB device
powered, you could change to +5VSB. Or vice versa. If the device
is playing dumb and is running from +5VSB, you could try
using +5V, on the theory that the fresh presentation of power
at startup, would lead to a successful enumeration. But modern
boards don't have that option, and tend to run the ports
from +5VSB permanently. They don't put a jumper block on the
board any more called "USBPWR" for making those changes.

Sure, you can play with the BIOS revision, but I don't have
a theory as to how that would help. At some point, the BIOS
hands off control to the OS, and after that, it is up to the
OS to enumerate the hardware, enumerate the USB bus, and
give all the devices endpoints and addresses. It could be
a disagreement between the device itself and the motherboard,
where one of the two parties isn't playing by the rules and
has ignored something important. On USB, multiple bus resets
are used as part of the protocol, and are part of the
enumeration process. And a failure to pay attention to a bus
reset, would be enough for a device to be "invisible".
Changing the BIOS revision, would be purely a long shot.

There are software packages and hardware devices for debugging
USB problems, neither of which I have any experience with. And
the hardware devices for this job, wouldn't be cheap, because
their designers have to eat. There is no guarantee a software
package could see all the details, as it would be just
as handcuffed as your OS is right now.

Paul
From: JClark on 25 Nov 2009 18:32
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 12:49:40 -0500, Paul <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote:

>If you click on the USB Human Interface Device entry, the pane on the right
>would show the details for the device.
Will try to see that information and interpret it.

>background info

Links saved and will peruse.

>play with the power supply
>feeding the USB header
I presume this is done in BIOS. Will investigate.

>Changing the BIOS revision, would be purely a long shot

Glad to hear that, I guess. I wasn't looking forward to it.

Paul, I guess you have exhausted your obviously superior knowledge of
the USB area on this problem. I sincerely appreciate it.

I may indeed have to replace the MB, and if I do, I will get one with
a PS/2 mouse outlet, for sure. In fact, I've probably spent a lot more
time playing around with this issue than I would have with a new MB
install. It's not the mechanics of installing the new board,
processor, etc. But I really dreaded the OS and software install and
configuration which take so much time.
But, hey, I learned some things.

"Good results come from experience. Experience comes from bad
results."

Many, many thanks.

Jack
From: Paul on 25 Nov 2009 23:57
JClark wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 12:49:40 -0500, Paul <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote:
>
>> If you click on the USB Human Interface Device entry, the pane on the right
>> would show the details for the device.
> Will try to see that information and interpret it.
>
>> background info
>
> Links saved and will peruse.
>
>> play with the power supply
>> feeding the USB header
> I presume this is done in BIOS. Will investigate.
>
>> Changing the BIOS revision, would be purely a long shot
>
> Glad to hear that, I guess. I wasn't looking forward to it.
>
> Paul, I guess you have exhausted your obviously superior knowledge of
> the USB area on this problem. I sincerely appreciate it.
>
> I may indeed have to replace the MB, and if I do, I will get one with
> a PS/2 mouse outlet, for sure. In fact, I've probably spent a lot more
> time playing around with this issue than I would have with a new MB
> install. It's not the mechanics of installing the new board,
> processor, etc. But I really dreaded the OS and software install and
> configuration which take so much time.
> But, hey, I learned some things.
>
> "Good results come from experience. Experience comes from bad
> results."
>
> Many, many thanks.
>
> Jack

I see you've been over to the forum.

In this thread, "Buck" did an RMA on a board with slightly different
symptoms. First the SATA wasn't being picked up at startup, and
then later, USB problems developed, with the USB disappearing
after it was running for a while. He did the RMA, and still had
problems with the disk. The thread doesn't mention any more problems
with USB. It could be something in that case, with a voltage regulator
feeding the Southbridge. If the board had a setting for SB voltage,
you could bump it up one notch.

http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?id=20090901130528500&board_id=1&model=M4A78-E&page=1&SLanguage=en-us

Section 3.5.17 of the M4A78-E manual mentions "SB Voltage"
and it looks like it has at least two settings of 1.20V
nominal and 1.35V boosted setting. You could try that out
for one or two restarts and see if there is any difference
in symptoms.

Or, you could boot a Linux LiveCD and see if the mouse
is working there. Ubuntu is an example. Knoppix from
knopper.net is another. There shouldn't be a problem
with them detecting a mouse.

Paul
From: JClark on 26 Nov 2009 13:26
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 23:57:27 -0500, Paul <nospam(a)needed.com> wrote:

>I see you've been over to the forum.
Yes, I posted there first. Also posted a "sharing" note about the RAID
configuration for this drive. Buck's problems seem related to the
Seagate drive. I returned two of them and they were replaced by
Seagate, but this system has WDC Caviar SATA hard drives.

>"SB Voltage"
>and it looks like it has at least two settings of 1.20V
>nominal and 1.35V boosted setting.

I tried the 1.35v (there was nothing in between). But somehwere along
the road I got into real problems. The sequence of events has be come
a bit muddy (it was late at night).I'm not sure that had anything to
do with the voltage change, but the system quit booting at all past
BIOS. So I did flash the BIOS back to a previous version. No help. Now
things are really messed up. I had to delete the RAID configuration,
which deleted the MBR, etc etc. So I'm back to reformatting and
reinstalling!

I've got the RMA and will change the board. Thinking about a more
expensive Tyan socket AM2+ which will accept my AMD phenom X4
processor, and it does have a PS/2 mouse outlet.

So I'm just playing around with this for the time being, since I can't
ship the board until tomorrow.

Many thanks again.

Jack


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