USB spectrum analyzer
in [Design]
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From: Robert Lacoste on 8 Oct 2009 03:05 "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> a �crit dans le message de news: 7j4h72F331d6oU1(a)mid.individual.net... > Zulu wrote: >> On Oct 5, 7:02 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> Robert Lacoste wrote: >>>> "Raveninghorde" <raveninghorde(a)invalid> a �crit dans le message de >>>> news: >>>> 2u3fc5tf140ooisit15bsd2e47d4coo...(a)4ax.com... >>>>> I'm looking for a USB spectrum analyzer for occasional use. >>>>> My immediate requirement is to cover the range 100kHz to 3MHz but up >>>>> to 30MHz would be good. >>>>> Any recommendations based on personal experience? >>>> Hello, >>>> You can try them :http://www.spectran.com/ >>>> we have bought one of their RF series (HF6060-V4), usable for >>>> qualitative >>>> measurements at least if you connect it to a PC (the local LCD is, >>>> well, >>>> limited). Not top range performances, but cheap. >>>> Friendly, >>>> Robert >>> Would be nice if they made one for the typical EMC pre-compliance range >>> from 150kHz to 1GHz. Had a chat with the key designer, and it seems they >>> either don't see that market or don't want to play there (which would be >>> very weird). >>> >>> How does yours behave in the presence of large inband signals? >>> >>> -- >>> Regards, Joerg Hello all, hello Joerg, I've done a quick test of our Spectran HF6065V4 with a dual tone input signal (two clean CW signals, 926MHz and 925.9MHz, -10dBm and -12dBm respectively). I've measured the output both with the Spectran and with an Agilent E4406A as a reference with similar setup (1MHz span, 1KHz RBW, full VBW, 0 dB ref level, 100dB range, preamplifier off for the spectran). Have a look here for the results : http://www.alciom.com/transfert/test_dualtone_spectran6065.jpg http://www.alciom.com/transfert/test_dualtone_e4406a.jpg Well, as I said the Spectran is usable and the measured values are nice, no visible mixing products in that test, however the noise floor is, well, quite different... The equipment price too ! That doesn't mean that a low cost product as the Spectran shouldn't be used, we bought it and we are very pleased, but it should be used carefully, and in partical when phase noise is important... Do you agree ? Friendly, Robert
From: Joerg on 8 Oct 2009 09:50 Robert Lacoste wrote: > "Joerg" <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> a �crit dans le message de news: > 7j4h72F331d6oU1(a)mid.individual.net... >> Zulu wrote: >>> On Oct 5, 7:02 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> Robert Lacoste wrote: >>>>> "Raveninghorde" <raveninghorde(a)invalid> a �crit dans le message de >>>>> news: >>>>> 2u3fc5tf140ooisit15bsd2e47d4coo...(a)4ax.com... >>>>>> I'm looking for a USB spectrum analyzer for occasional use. >>>>>> My immediate requirement is to cover the range 100kHz to 3MHz but up >>>>>> to 30MHz would be good. >>>>>> Any recommendations based on personal experience? >>>>> Hello, >>>>> You can try them :http://www.spectran.com/ >>>>> we have bought one of their RF series (HF6060-V4), usable for >>>>> qualitative >>>>> measurements at least if you connect it to a PC (the local LCD is, >>>>> well, >>>>> limited). Not top range performances, but cheap. >>>>> Friendly, >>>>> Robert >>>> Would be nice if they made one for the typical EMC pre-compliance range >>>> from 150kHz to 1GHz. Had a chat with the key designer, and it seems they >>>> either don't see that market or don't want to play there (which would be >>>> very weird). >>>> >>>> How does yours behave in the presence of large inband signals? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Regards, Joerg > > Hello all, hello Joerg, > > I've done a quick test of our Spectran HF6065V4 with a dual tone input > signal (two clean CW signals, 926MHz and 925.9MHz, -10dBm and -12dBm > respectively). I've measured the output both with the Spectran and with an > Agilent E4406A as a reference with similar setup (1MHz span, 1KHz RBW, full > VBW, 0 dB ref level, 100dB range, preamplifier off for the spectran). > > Have a look here for the results : > http://www.alciom.com/transfert/test_dualtone_spectran6065.jpg > http://www.alciom.com/transfert/test_dualtone_e4406a.jpg > > Well, as I said the Spectran is usable and the measured values are nice, no > visible mixing products in that test, however the noise floor is, well, > quite different... The equipment price too ! That doesn't mean that a low > cost product as the Spectran shouldn't be used, we bought it and we are very > pleased, but it should be used carefully, and in partical when phase noise > is important... Do you agree ? > Ouch, that comparison gave the Spectran a black eye. Although it probably would have been more fair if the Spectran was connected to a PC for display. I've heard from people that it really has a hard time when you must measure inside a crowded bands with dozens of other strong signals, such as the FM band near a large city. Anyhow, I could not live with that sort of noise floor. Thanks for the comparison, Robert. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Joerg on 8 Oct 2009 09:53 Zulu wrote: > On Oct 7, 11:57 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >> Zulu wrote: >>> On Oct 5, 7:02 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> Robert Lacoste wrote: >>>>> "Raveninghorde" <raveninghorde(a)invalid> a �crit dans le message de news: >>>>> 2u3fc5tf140ooisit15bsd2e47d4coo...(a)4ax.com... >>>>>> I'm looking for a USB spectrum analyzer for occasional use. >>>>>> My immediate requirement is to cover the range 100kHz to 3MHz but up >>>>>> to 30MHz would be good. >>>>>> Any recommendations based on personal experience? >>>>> Hello, >>>>> You can try them :http://www.spectran.com/ >>>>> we have bought one of their RF series (HF6060-V4), usable for qualitative >>>>> measurements at least if you connect it to a PC (the local LCD is, well, >>>>> limited). Not top range performances, but cheap. >>>>> Friendly, >>>>> Robert >>>> Would be nice if they made one for the typical EMC pre-compliance range >>>> from 150kHz to 1GHz. Had a chat with the key designer, and it seems they >>>> either don't see that market or don't want to play there (which would be >>>> very weird). >>>> How does yours behave in the presence of large inband signals? >>>> -- >>>> Regards, Joerg >>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >>>> Use another domain or send PM. >>> I would recomend the HF-60100 V4. We use it for our EMC tests and it >>> works nice even down to 150kHz (on the website they only talk about >>> 1MHz, propably thats the "made in germany" reserve...). >> Yeah, I was told it does go lower than the datasheet. However, the V4 is >> priced quite steeply. >> >>> Just as a note: For EMC tests dont forget that you need to add some >>> options to that unit like internal and external preamp and a biconical >>> antenna "BicoLOG 30100". Anyway its still much cheaper then EMC tests >>> in a lab :-) >> This is pretty cool: >> >> http://www.kaltmancreationsllc.com/invisibleWaves.html >> >> Anyhow, it all pre-compliance and doesn't replace the trip to the EMC >> lab. The measurement precision is quite a bit different there. The last >> step must be unobstructed free range and properly weighted receiver >> logging. In winter that's not always pleasant but it has to be done. >> >> -- >> Regards, Joerg >> >> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >> >> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >> Use another domain or send PM. > > The total price was about 5000 Euros for our whole kit. Quite cheap if > you compare it to lab tests. Quite expensive. I mostly use a computer-controlled scanner (Icom R1500) for spectrum, about $500-$600 depending on whether you want a standalone feature or just PC-based. For 5000 Euros I could get a nice full-blooded spectrum analyzer off Ebay. > We also compared the spectran results vs lab plots of two test units, > which failed in the lab (EN55022). The diagrams are within 2dB. Thats > very good for only 5k euros so i dont think we need any lab test in > future any more. > Accuracy is good but I am more concerned about performance in the vicinity of lots of other (legitimate) RF. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Zulu on 8 Oct 2009 12:46 On Oct 8, 3:53 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > Zulu wrote: > > On Oct 7, 11:57 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> Zulu wrote: > >>> On Oct 5, 7:02 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >>>> Robert Lacoste wrote: > >>>>> "Raveninghorde" <raveninghorde(a)invalid> a écrit dans le message de news: > >>>>> 2u3fc5tf140ooisit15bsd2e47d4coo...(a)4ax.com... > >>>>>> I'm looking for a USB spectrum analyzer for occasional use. > >>>>>> My immediate requirement is to cover the range 100kHz to 3MHz but up > >>>>>> to 30MHz would be good. > >>>>>> Any recommendations based on personal experience? > >>>>> Hello, > >>>>> You can try them :http://www.spectran.com/ > >>>>> we have bought one of their RF series (HF6060-V4), usable for qualitative > >>>>> measurements at least if you connect it to a PC (the local LCD is, well, > >>>>> limited). Not top range performances, but cheap. > >>>>> Friendly, > >>>>> Robert > >>>> Would be nice if they made one for the typical EMC pre-compliance range > >>>> from 150kHz to 1GHz. Had a chat with the key designer, and it seems they > >>>> either don't see that market or don't want to play there (which would be > >>>> very weird). > >>>> How does yours behave in the presence of large inband signals? > >>>> -- > >>>> Regards, Joerg > >>>>http://www.analogconsultants.com/ > >>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > >>>> Use another domain or send PM. > >>> I would recomend the HF-60100 V4. We use it for our EMC tests and it > >>> works nice even down to 150kHz (on the website they only talk about > >>> 1MHz, propably thats the "made in germany" reserve...). > >> Yeah, I was told it does go lower than the datasheet. However, the V4 is > >> priced quite steeply. > > >>> Just as a note: For EMC tests dont forget that you need to add some > >>> options to that unit like internal and external preamp and a biconical > >>> antenna "BicoLOG 30100". Anyway its still much cheaper then EMC tests > >>> in a lab :-) > >> This is pretty cool: > > >>http://www.kaltmancreationsllc.com/invisibleWaves.html > > >> Anyhow, it all pre-compliance and doesn't replace the trip to the EMC > >> lab. The measurement precision is quite a bit different there. The last > >> step must be unobstructed free range and properly weighted receiver > >> logging. In winter that's not always pleasant but it has to be done. > > >> -- > >> Regards, Joerg > > >>http://www.analogconsultants.com/ > > >> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > >> Use another domain or send PM. > > > The total price was about 5000 Euros for our whole kit. Quite cheap if > > you compare it to lab tests. > > Quite expensive. I mostly use a computer-controlled scanner (Icom R1500) > for spectrum, about $500-$600 depending on whether you want a standalone > feature or just PC-based. For 5000 Euros I could get a nice full-blooded > spectrum analyzer off Ebay. > > > We also compared thespectranresults vs lab plots of two test units, > > which failed in the lab (EN55022). The diagrams are within 2dB. Thats > > very good for only 5k euros so i dont think we need any lab test in > > future any more. > > Accuracy is good but I am more concerned about performance in the > vicinity of lots of other (legitimate) RF. > > -- > Regards, Joerg > > http://www.analogconsultants.com/ > > "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > Use another domain or send PM. @Joerg I think you got me wrong. The 5000 Euros are inluding the antenna, preamp, cables, adapter not only for the analyzer itself. Oh and dont forget: The testsoftware is for free. I made a little screenhsot with our setup noisefloor (yellow) and a unit under test (green). http://www.upload.mn/view/6on0oxb2wlv3ftdjl5jw.jpg/ Mark
From: Joerg on 8 Oct 2009 13:20
Zulu wrote: > On Oct 8, 3:53 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >> Zulu wrote: >>> On Oct 7, 11:57 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> Zulu wrote: >>>>> On Oct 5, 7:02 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> Robert Lacoste wrote: >>>>>>> "Raveninghorde" <raveninghorde(a)invalid> a �crit dans le message de news: >>>>>>> 2u3fc5tf140ooisit15bsd2e47d4coo...(a)4ax.com... >>>>>>>> I'm looking for a USB spectrum analyzer for occasional use. >>>>>>>> My immediate requirement is to cover the range 100kHz to 3MHz but up >>>>>>>> to 30MHz would be good. >>>>>>>> Any recommendations based on personal experience? >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> You can try them :http://www.spectran.com/ >>>>>>> we have bought one of their RF series (HF6060-V4), usable for qualitative >>>>>>> measurements at least if you connect it to a PC (the local LCD is, well, >>>>>>> limited). Not top range performances, but cheap. >>>>>>> Friendly, >>>>>>> Robert >>>>>> Would be nice if they made one for the typical EMC pre-compliance range >>>>>> from 150kHz to 1GHz. Had a chat with the key designer, and it seems they >>>>>> either don't see that market or don't want to play there (which would be >>>>>> very weird). >>>>>> How does yours behave in the presence of large inband signals? >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Regards, Joerg >>>>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >>>>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >>>>>> Use another domain or send PM. >>>>> I would recomend the HF-60100 V4. We use it for our EMC tests and it >>>>> works nice even down to 150kHz (on the website they only talk about >>>>> 1MHz, propably thats the "made in germany" reserve...). >>>> Yeah, I was told it does go lower than the datasheet. However, the V4 is >>>> priced quite steeply. >>>>> Just as a note: For EMC tests dont forget that you need to add some >>>>> options to that unit like internal and external preamp and a biconical >>>>> antenna "BicoLOG 30100". Anyway its still much cheaper then EMC tests >>>>> in a lab :-) >>>> This is pretty cool: >>>> http://www.kaltmancreationsllc.com/invisibleWaves.html >>>> Anyhow, it all pre-compliance and doesn't replace the trip to the EMC >>>> lab. The measurement precision is quite a bit different there. The last >>>> step must be unobstructed free range and properly weighted receiver >>>> logging. In winter that's not always pleasant but it has to be done. >>>> -- >>>> Regards, Joerg >>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >>>> Use another domain or send PM. >>> The total price was about 5000 Euros for our whole kit. Quite cheap if >>> you compare it to lab tests. >> Quite expensive. I mostly use a computer-controlled scanner (Icom R1500) >> for spectrum, about $500-$600 depending on whether you want a standalone >> feature or just PC-based. For 5000 Euros I could get a nice full-blooded >> spectrum analyzer off Ebay. >> >>> We also compared thespectranresults vs lab plots of two test units, >>> which failed in the lab (EN55022). The diagrams are within 2dB. Thats >>> very good for only 5k euros so i dont think we need any lab test in >>> future any more. >> Accuracy is good but I am more concerned about performance in the >> vicinity of lots of other (legitimate) RF. >> >> -- >> Regards, Joerg >> >> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >> >> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >> Use another domain or send PM. > > @Joerg > I think you got me wrong. The 5000 Euros are inluding the antenna, > preamp, cables, adapter not only for the analyzer itself. It's still a lot of money. AFAIR the antenna they usually ship is a shark-fin shaped sort, looks like a shortened log-per might be in there but that I dont' know. > Oh and dont forget: The testsoftware is for free. > That is very commendable of them. Although except for some of the big mfgs that's quite customary these days. When I bought my last DSO I was pleasantly surprised about a note in the accompanying docs saying that free PC-control software could be downloaded for the scope. No more USB stick file ferrying in the lab. > I made a little screenhsot with our setup noisefloor (yellow) and a > unit under test (green). > http://www.upload.mn/view/6on0oxb2wlv3ftdjl5jw.jpg/ > Thanks, Mark. Kind of hard to see because the resolution doesn't allow reading the scale factors. I wonder whether the raised noise floor from your DUT (green) on the left side is really there or analyzer-caused. My common job is that I have to find a really tiny noise peak inside a thicket of other legitimate signals, in order to reduce self-pollution in a system. Other jobs are finding potential EMI issues without having a screen room available. The toughest was a place right next to a busy runway. There, any sort of receiver or analyzer has to be able to swallow all this without a raise in noise floor or intermodulation. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM. |