USB spectrum analyzer
in [Design]
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From: Zulu on 8 Oct 2009 13:57 On Oct 8, 7:20 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > Zulu wrote: > > On Oct 8, 3:53 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> Zulu wrote: > >>> On Oct 7, 11:57 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >>>> Zulu wrote: > >>>>> On Oct 5, 7:02 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >>>>>> Robert Lacoste wrote: > >>>>>>> "Raveninghorde" <raveninghorde(a)invalid> a écrit dans le message de news: > >>>>>>> 2u3fc5tf140ooisit15bsd2e47d4coo...(a)4ax.com... > >>>>>>>> I'm looking for a USB spectrum analyzer for occasional use. > >>>>>>>> My immediate requirement is to cover the range 100kHz to 3MHz but up > >>>>>>>> to 30MHz would be good. > >>>>>>>> Any recommendations based on personal experience? > >>>>>>> Hello, > >>>>>>> You can try them :http://www.spectran.com/ > >>>>>>> we have bought one of their RF series (HF6060-V4), usable for qualitative > >>>>>>> measurements at least if you connect it to a PC (the local LCD is, well, > >>>>>>> limited). Not top range performances, but cheap. > >>>>>>> Friendly, > >>>>>>> Robert > >>>>>> Would be nice if they made one for the typical EMC pre-compliance range > >>>>>> from 150kHz to 1GHz. Had a chat with the key designer, and it seems they > >>>>>> either don't see that market or don't want to play there (which would be > >>>>>> very weird). > >>>>>> How does yours behave in the presence of large inband signals? > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Regards, Joerg > >>>>>>http://www.analogconsultants.com/ > >>>>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > >>>>>> Use another domain or send PM. > >>>>> I would recomend the HF-60100 V4. We use it for our EMC tests and it > >>>>> works nice even down to 150kHz (on the website they only talk about > >>>>> 1MHz, propably thats the "made in germany" reserve...). > >>>> Yeah, I was told it does go lower than the datasheet. However, the V4 is > >>>> priced quite steeply. > >>>>> Just as a note: For EMC tests dont forget that you need to add some > >>>>> options to that unit like internal and external preamp and a biconical > >>>>> antenna "BicoLOG 30100". Anyway its still much cheaper then EMC tests > >>>>> in a lab :-) > >>>> This is pretty cool: > >>>>http://www.kaltmancreationsllc.com/invisibleWaves.html > >>>> Anyhow, it all pre-compliance and doesn't replace the trip to the EMC > >>>> lab. The measurement precision is quite a bit different there. The last > >>>> step must be unobstructed free range and properly weighted receiver > >>>> logging. In winter that's not always pleasant but it has to be done. > >>>> -- > >>>> Regards, Joerg > >>>>http://www.analogconsultants.com/ > >>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > >>>> Use another domain or send PM. > >>> The total price was about 5000 Euros for our whole kit. Quite cheap if > >>> you compare it to lab tests. > >> Quite expensive. I mostly use a computer-controlled scanner (Icom R1500) > >> for spectrum, about $500-$600 depending on whether you want a standalone > >> feature or just PC-based. For 5000 Euros I could get a nice full-blooded > >> spectrum analyzer off Ebay. > > >>> We also compared thespectranresults vs lab plots of two test units, > >>> which failed in the lab (EN55022). The diagrams are within 2dB. Thats > >>> very good for only 5k euros so i dont think we need any lab test in > >>> future any more. > >> Accuracy is good but I am more concerned about performance in the > >> vicinity of lots of other (legitimate) RF. > > >> -- > >> Regards, Joerg > > >>http://www.analogconsultants.com/ > > >> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > >> Use another domain or send PM. > > > @Joerg > > I think you got me wrong. The 5000 Euros are inluding the antenna, > > preamp, cables, adapter not only for the analyzer itself. > > It's still a lot of money. AFAIR the antenna they usually ship is a > shark-fin shaped sort, looks like a shortened log-per might be in there > but that I dont' know. > > > Oh and dont forget: The testsoftware is for free. > > That is very commendable of them. Although except for some of the big > mfgs that's quite customary these days. When I bought my last DSO I was > pleasantly surprised about a note in the accompanying docs saying that > free PC-control software could be downloaded for the scope. No more USB > stick file ferrying in the lab. > > > I made a little screenhsot with our setup noisefloor (yellow) and a > > unit under test (green). > >http://www.upload.mn/view/6on0oxb2wlv3ftdjl5jw.jpg/ > > Thanks, Mark. Kind of hard to see because the resolution doesn't allow > reading the scale factors. I wonder whether the raised noise floor from > your DUT (green) on the left side is really there or analyzer-caused. My > common job is that I have to find a really tiny noise peak inside a > thicket of other legitimate signals, in order to reduce self-pollution > in a system. Other jobs are finding potential EMI issues without having > a screen room available. The toughest was a place right next to a busy > runway. There, any sort of receiver or analyzer has to be able to > swallow all this without a raise in noise floor or intermodulation. > > -- > Regards, Joerg > > http://www.analogconsultants.com/ > > "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > Use another domain or send PM. Hmmm, just found out: click on the picture, then its original size will pop up. Yes the "shark fin" Hyperlog antenna (works from 680MHz to 10GHz) is in the package but for EMC you need a nother antenna, the bicolog 30100 (works from 30MHz to 1GHz) and that one was quite expensive... Mark
From: Joerg on 8 Oct 2009 14:54 Zulu wrote: > On Oct 8, 7:20 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >> Zulu wrote: >>> On Oct 8, 3:53 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> Zulu wrote: >>>>> On Oct 7, 11:57 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> Zulu wrote: >>>>>>> On Oct 5, 7:02 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>> Robert Lacoste wrote: >>>>>>>>> "Raveninghorde" <raveninghorde(a)invalid> a �crit dans le message de news: >>>>>>>>> 2u3fc5tf140ooisit15bsd2e47d4coo...(a)4ax.com... >>>>>>>>>> I'm looking for a USB spectrum analyzer for occasional use. >>>>>>>>>> My immediate requirement is to cover the range 100kHz to 3MHz but up >>>>>>>>>> to 30MHz would be good. >>>>>>>>>> Any recommendations based on personal experience? >>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>> You can try them :http://www.spectran.com/ >>>>>>>>> we have bought one of their RF series (HF6060-V4), usable for qualitative >>>>>>>>> measurements at least if you connect it to a PC (the local LCD is, well, >>>>>>>>> limited). Not top range performances, but cheap. >>>>>>>>> Friendly, >>>>>>>>> Robert >>>>>>>> Would be nice if they made one for the typical EMC pre-compliance range >>>>>>>> from 150kHz to 1GHz. Had a chat with the key designer, and it seems they >>>>>>>> either don't see that market or don't want to play there (which would be >>>>>>>> very weird). >>>>>>>> How does yours behave in the presence of large inband signals? >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Regards, Joerg >>>>>>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >>>>>>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >>>>>>>> Use another domain or send PM. >>>>>>> I would recomend the HF-60100 V4. We use it for our EMC tests and it >>>>>>> works nice even down to 150kHz (on the website they only talk about >>>>>>> 1MHz, propably thats the "made in germany" reserve...). >>>>>> Yeah, I was told it does go lower than the datasheet. However, the V4 is >>>>>> priced quite steeply. >>>>>>> Just as a note: For EMC tests dont forget that you need to add some >>>>>>> options to that unit like internal and external preamp and a biconical >>>>>>> antenna "BicoLOG 30100". Anyway its still much cheaper then EMC tests >>>>>>> in a lab :-) >>>>>> This is pretty cool: >>>>>> http://www.kaltmancreationsllc.com/invisibleWaves.html >>>>>> Anyhow, it all pre-compliance and doesn't replace the trip to the EMC >>>>>> lab. The measurement precision is quite a bit different there. The last >>>>>> step must be unobstructed free range and properly weighted receiver >>>>>> logging. In winter that's not always pleasant but it has to be done. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Regards, Joerg >>>>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >>>>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >>>>>> Use another domain or send PM. >>>>> The total price was about 5000 Euros for our whole kit. Quite cheap if >>>>> you compare it to lab tests. >>>> Quite expensive. I mostly use a computer-controlled scanner (Icom R1500) >>>> for spectrum, about $500-$600 depending on whether you want a standalone >>>> feature or just PC-based. For 5000 Euros I could get a nice full-blooded >>>> spectrum analyzer off Ebay. >>>>> We also compared thespectranresults vs lab plots of two test units, >>>>> which failed in the lab (EN55022). The diagrams are within 2dB. Thats >>>>> very good for only 5k euros so i dont think we need any lab test in >>>>> future any more. >>>> Accuracy is good but I am more concerned about performance in the >>>> vicinity of lots of other (legitimate) RF. >>>> -- >>>> Regards, Joerg >>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >>>> Use another domain or send PM. >>> @Joerg >>> I think you got me wrong. The 5000 Euros are inluding the antenna, >>> preamp, cables, adapter not only for the analyzer itself. >> It's still a lot of money. AFAIR the antenna they usually ship is a >> shark-fin shaped sort, looks like a shortened log-per might be in there >> but that I dont' know. >> >>> Oh and dont forget: The testsoftware is for free. >> That is very commendable of them. Although except for some of the big >> mfgs that's quite customary these days. When I bought my last DSO I was >> pleasantly surprised about a note in the accompanying docs saying that >> free PC-control software could be downloaded for the scope. No more USB >> stick file ferrying in the lab. >> >>> I made a little screenhsot with our setup noisefloor (yellow) and a >>> unit under test (green). >>> http://www.upload.mn/view/6on0oxb2wlv3ftdjl5jw.jpg/ >> Thanks, Mark. Kind of hard to see because the resolution doesn't allow >> reading the scale factors. I wonder whether the raised noise floor from >> your DUT (green) on the left side is really there or analyzer-caused. My >> common job is that I have to find a really tiny noise peak inside a >> thicket of other legitimate signals, in order to reduce self-pollution >> in a system. Other jobs are finding potential EMI issues without having >> a screen room available. The toughest was a place right next to a busy >> runway. There, any sort of receiver or analyzer has to be able to >> swallow all this without a raise in noise floor or intermodulation. >> >> -- >> Regards, Joerg >> >> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ >> >> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >> Use another domain or send PM. > > Hmmm, just found out: click on the picture, then its original size > will pop up. > Yes, indeed. On most sites that's indicated with a zoom marker but not here. Was this taken in a screen room? Reason I ask is that the dynamic range is set very low and the usual FM band spectrum chunk isn't there. The typos in the menu are kind of funny, like "Bandwith", "Profil" (that's definitely German ...) or "Referenc". But it's the same on my Taiwan-engineered DSO, just a different accent ;-) > Yes the "shark fin" Hyperlog antenna (works from 680MHz to 10GHz) is > in the package but for EMC you need a nother antenna, the bicolog > 30100 (works from 30MHz to 1GHz) and that one was quite expensive... > A bicone? They aren't all that great above 300MHz unless theirs is special. You can often buy bicones for a few hundred Dollars at auctions but you'd have to make sure the joints aren't too tired or bent. Those things tend to fall over a lot. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Zulu on 8 Oct 2009 15:36 On Oct 8, 8:54 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > Zulu wrote: > > On Oct 8, 7:20 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> Zulu wrote: > >>> On Oct 8, 3:53 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >>>> Zulu wrote: > >>>>> On Oct 7, 11:57 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >>>>>> Zulu wrote: > >>>>>>> On Oct 5, 7:02 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: > >>>>>>>> Robert Lacoste wrote: > >>>>>>>>> "Raveninghorde" <raveninghorde(a)invalid> a écrit dans le message de news: > >>>>>>>>> 2u3fc5tf140ooisit15bsd2e47d4coo...(a)4ax.com... > >>>>>>>>>> I'm looking for a USB spectrum analyzer for occasional use. > >>>>>>>>>> My immediate requirement is to cover the range 100kHz to 3MHz but up > >>>>>>>>>> to 30MHz would be good. > >>>>>>>>>> Any recommendations based on personal experience? > >>>>>>>>> Hello, > >>>>>>>>> You can try them :http://www.spectran.com/ > >>>>>>>>> we have bought one of their RF series (HF6060-V4), usable for qualitative > >>>>>>>>> measurements at least if you connect it to a PC (the local LCD is, well, > >>>>>>>>> limited). Not top range performances, but cheap. > >>>>>>>>> Friendly, > >>>>>>>>> Robert > >>>>>>>> Would be nice if they made one for the typical EMC pre-compliance range > >>>>>>>> from 150kHz to 1GHz. Had a chat with the key designer, and it seems they > >>>>>>>> either don't see that market or don't want to play there (which would be > >>>>>>>> very weird). > >>>>>>>> How does yours behave in the presence of large inband signals? > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> Regards, Joerg > >>>>>>>>http://www.analogconsultants.com/ > >>>>>>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > >>>>>>>> Use another domain or send PM. > >>>>>>> I would recomend the HF-60100 V4. We use it for our EMC tests and it > >>>>>>> works nice even down to 150kHz (on the website they only talk about > >>>>>>> 1MHz, propably thats the "made in germany" reserve...). > >>>>>> Yeah, I was told it does go lower than the datasheet. However, the V4 is > >>>>>> priced quite steeply. > >>>>>>> Just as a note: For EMC tests dont forget that you need to add some > >>>>>>> options to that unit like internal and external preamp and a biconical > >>>>>>> antenna "BicoLOG 30100". Anyway its still much cheaper then EMC tests > >>>>>>> in a lab :-) > >>>>>> This is pretty cool: > >>>>>>http://www.kaltmancreationsllc.com/invisibleWaves.html > >>>>>> Anyhow, it all pre-compliance and doesn't replace the trip to the EMC > >>>>>> lab. The measurement precision is quite a bit different there. The last > >>>>>> step must be unobstructed free range and properly weighted receiver > >>>>>> logging. In winter that's not always pleasant but it has to be done. > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Regards, Joerg > >>>>>>http://www.analogconsultants.com/ > >>>>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > >>>>>> Use another domain or send PM. > >>>>> The total price was about 5000 Euros for our whole kit. Quite cheap if > >>>>> you compare it to lab tests. > >>>> Quite expensive. I mostly use a computer-controlled scanner (Icom R1500) > >>>> for spectrum, about $500-$600 depending on whether you want a standalone > >>>> feature or just PC-based. For 5000 Euros I could get a nice full-blooded > >>>> spectrum analyzer off Ebay. > >>>>> We also compared thespectranresults vs lab plots of two test units, > >>>>> which failed in the lab (EN55022). The diagrams are within 2dB. Thats > >>>>> very good for only 5k euros so i dont think we need any lab test in > >>>>> future any more. > >>>> Accuracy is good but I am more concerned about performance in the > >>>> vicinity of lots of other (legitimate) RF. > >>>> -- > >>>> Regards, Joerg > >>>>http://www.analogconsultants.com/ > >>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > >>>> Use another domain or send PM. > >>> @Joerg > >>> I think you got me wrong. The 5000 Euros are inluding the antenna, > >>> preamp, cables, adapter not only for the analyzer itself. > >> It's still a lot of money. AFAIR the antenna they usually ship is a > >> shark-fin shaped sort, looks like a shortened log-per might be in there > >> but that I dont' know. > > >>> Oh and dont forget: The testsoftware is for free. > >> That is very commendable of them. Although except for some of the big > >> mfgs that's quite customary these days. When I bought my last DSO I was > >> pleasantly surprised about a note in the accompanying docs saying that > >> free PC-control software could be downloaded for the scope. No more USB > >> stick file ferrying in the lab. > > >>> I made a little screenhsot with our setup noisefloor (yellow) and a > >>> unit under test (green). > >>>http://www.upload.mn/view/6on0oxb2wlv3ftdjl5jw.jpg/ > >> Thanks, Mark. Kind of hard to see because the resolution doesn't allow > >> reading the scale factors. I wonder whether the raised noise floor from > >> your DUT (green) on the left side is really there or analyzer-caused. My > >> common job is that I have to find a really tiny noise peak inside a > >> thicket of other legitimate signals, in order to reduce self-pollution > >> in a system. Other jobs are finding potential EMI issues without having > >> a screen room available. The toughest was a place right next to a busy > >> runway. There, any sort of receiver or analyzer has to be able to > >> swallow all this without a raise in noise floor or intermodulation. > > >> -- > >> Regards, Joerg > > >>http://www.analogconsultants.com/ > > >> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > >> Use another domain or send PM. > > > Hmmm, just found out: click on the picture, then its original size > > will pop up. > > Yes, indeed. On most sites that's indicated with a zoom marker but not > here. Was this taken in a screen room? Reason I ask is that the dynamic > range is set very low and the usual FM band spectrum chunk isn't there. > > The typos in the menu are kind of funny, like "Bandwith", "Profil" > (that's definitely German ...) or "Referenc". But it's the same on my > Taiwan-engineered DSO, just a different accent ;-) > > > Yes the "shark fin" Hyperlog antenna (works from 680MHz to 10GHz) is > > in the package but for EMC you need a nother antenna, the bicolog > > 30100 (works from 30MHz to 1GHz) and that one was quite expensive... > > A bicone? They aren't all that great above 300MHz unless theirs is > special. You can often buy bicones for a few hundred Dollars at auctions > but you'd have to make sure the joints aren't too tired or bent. Those > things tend to fall over a lot. > > -- > Regards, Joerg > > http://www.analogconsultants.com/ > > "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > Use another domain or send PM. Yes thats right but the bicolog versions from aaronia cover the fulll range up to 1GHz. So you only need one antenna for the full EN test. I just noted that they have a new E-version with 10dB more gain http://www.spectran.com/EMC_Test_Antenna.shtml/ - should have known that earlier :-( We have no radio at our location thats why there is no "regular" noise shown. Its a real shot at my lab which hase no screening at all so the noise should even be lower in a screened room. Mark
From: Joerg on 8 Oct 2009 16:04 Zulu wrote: > On Oct 8, 8:54 pm, Joerg <inva...(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >> Zulu wrote: [...] >>> Yes the "shark fin" Hyperlog antenna (works from 680MHz to 10GHz) is >>> in the package but for EMC you need a nother antenna, the bicolog >>> 30100 (works from 30MHz to 1GHz) and that one was quite expensive... >> A bicone? They aren't all that great above 300MHz unless theirs is >> special. You can often buy bicones for a few hundred Dollars at auctions >> but you'd have to make sure the joints aren't too tired or bent. Those >> things tend to fall over a lot. >> > Yes thats right but the bicolog versions from aaronia cover the fulll > range up to 1GHz. So you only need one antenna for the full EN test. > I just noted that they have a new E-version with 10dB more gain > http://www.spectran.com/EMC_Test_Antenna.shtml/ - should have known > that earlier :-( > You could probably whip up your own amp around an MMIC if the Spectran's sensitivity isn't good enough. Same for antennas, the only challenge is to get them calibrated against a rental with current cal sheets or something. > We have no radio at our location thats why there is no "regular" noise > shown. Its a real shot at my lab which hase no screening at all so the > noise should even be lower in a screened room. > No FM stations? Wow. Do you live somewhere in the boonies in Nevada or Arizona? At least there is a signal in the airband so you aren't alone out there :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Raveninghorde on 13 Oct 2009 08:24 On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 11:55:48 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >Raveninghorde wrote: >> I'm looking for a USB spectrum analyzer for occasional use. >> >> My immediate requirement is to cover the range 100kHz to 3MHz but up >> to 30MHz would be good. >> >> Any recommendations based on personal experience? > > >It's an unserved market. You can get one based on a Winradio but IIRC >it'll set you back north af $1500. Then there's the Icom R1500 for $600 >or sans controller pod as the PCR1500 for around $500. Not much out >there in terms of (reliable) spectrum analysis software, so to make it >fancy you'd have to write some. I managed to borrow an HP 8558B for a few days. It does more than I need for this problem. It is a shame it is so heavy.
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