Very cheap wind power
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From: bert on 21 Jul 2010 10:52 On Jul 21, 3:05 am, sno <s...(a)opelc.com> wrote: > On 7/20/2010 10:49 PM, herbzet wrote: > > > > > > > > > Sevenhundred Elves wrote: > >> hab...(a)anony.net wrote: > > >>> Jim please read carefully. Once these 10m odd 5mw windmills have > >>> been built and store energy in compressed air systems all our energy > >>> worries will be over > > >> Compressed air systems? Why not giant clockwork springs, while we're at > >> it? I wouldn't be surprised if there are less losses in those than in > >> compressed air systems. Crank them up, see the wheels spin! > > >> Seriously though, for electric energy storage on a larger scale the > >> Vanadium battery seems to be the way to go: > > >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery > > > Hi, > > > Read the article, claims charge/discharge efficiency of 75-80%. > > > This is comparable to > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity > > > wherin it is claimed 70-80% efficiency, also compare > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage > >http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2009/11/25/200-flywheels-will-back-up-... > > > where it is claimed up to 90% efficiency. > > > A nice picture of a fiberglass, resin, and carbon fiber flywheel at > > >http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/efficiency/4337758 > > > Anyway, I've been wondering recently what kind of energy in/energy out efficiency > > is possible, theoretically or with current technology, if you use electricity to > > split water into hydrogen and oxygen, then burn the hydrogen/oxygen to drive a generator > > to make electriciy. > > > The question could probably be more sharply formulated; I haven't had any easy success > > finding an answer by browsing around on the net. > > > Maybe you energy geeks can help me out? :-) > > > Thanx! > > > -- > > hz > > It looks something like this...starting from initial fuel...oil/coal.. > > Oil/Coal-100 units of push...turbine-50 units....line loss-45 > units...electrolysis-22.5 units...hydrogen-stores 22.5 units.....ic > engine-5.5 units....generator/electric motor-5 units of push > > hope helps...have fun....sno > > -- > Correct Scientific Terminology: > Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs > Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments > to be generally assumed to be true. > Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments > in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory.. > Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I have used flying bugs to run navigate,and fly tiny model planes Now I have a cockroach driving a tiny car. It runs on methane gas that comes from my farting and compressing the fart into tanks. Car get more milage when I eat hard boiled eggs with my Bud light. Reality is a fart is wasted energy. TreBert
From: herbzet on 21 Jul 2010 23:25 sno wrote: > herbzet wrote: > > Sevenhundred Elves wrote: > >> habshi(a)anony.net wrote: > >> > >>> Jim please read carefully. Once these 10m odd 5mw windmills have > >>> been built and store energy in compressed air systems all our energy > >>> worries will be over > >>> > >> > >> Compressed air systems? Why not giant clockwork springs, while we're at > >> it? I wouldn't be surprised if there are less losses in those than in > >> compressed air systems. Crank them up, see the wheels spin! > >> > >> Seriously though, for electric energy storage on a larger scale the > >> Vanadium battery seems to be the way to go: > >> > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery > > > > Hi, > > > > Read the article, claims charge/discharge efficiency of 75-80%. > > > > This is comparable to > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity > > > > wherin it is claimed 70-80% efficiency, That should be 70-85%. > > also compare > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage > > http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2009/11/25/200-flywheels-will-back-up-new-yorks-energy-grid-starting-2011/ > > > > where it is claimed up to 90% efficiency. > > > > A nice picture of a fiberglass, resin, and carbon fiber flywheel at > > > > http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/efficiency/4337758 > > > > Anyway, I've been wondering recently what kind of energy in/energy out efficiency > > is possible, theoretically or with current technology, if you use electricity to > > split water into hydrogen and oxygen, then burn the hydrogen/oxygen to drive a generator > > to make electriciy. > > > > The question could probably be more sharply formulated; I haven't had any easy success > > finding an answer by browsing around on the net. > > > > Maybe you energy geeks can help me out? :-) > > > > Thanx! > > It looks something like this...starting from initial fuel...oil/coal.. > > Oil/Coal-100 units of push...turbine-50 units....line loss-45 > units...electrolysis-22.5 units...hydrogen-stores 22.5 units.....ic > engine-5.5 units....generator/electric motor-5 units of push > > hope helps...have fun....sno Unhelpful. Also, the initial fuel for generating the electricity is /don't care/. -- hz
From: sno on 22 Jul 2010 02:00
On 7/21/2010 11:25 PM, herbzet wrote: > > > sno wrote: >> herbzet wrote: >>> Sevenhundred Elves wrote: >>>> habshi(a)anony.net wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jim please read carefully. Once these 10m odd 5mw windmills have >>>>> been built and store energy in compressed air systems all our energy >>>>> worries will be over >>>>> >>>> >>>> Compressed air systems? Why not giant clockwork springs, while we're at >>>> it? I wouldn't be surprised if there are less losses in those than in >>>> compressed air systems. Crank them up, see the wheels spin! >>>> >>>> Seriously though, for electric energy storage on a larger scale the >>>> Vanadium battery seems to be the way to go: >>>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Read the article, claims charge/discharge efficiency of 75-80%. >>> >>> This is comparable to >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity >>> >>> wherin it is claimed 70-80% efficiency, > > That should be 70-85%. > > >>> also compare >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage >>> http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2009/11/25/200-flywheels-will-back-up-new-yorks-energy-grid-starting-2011/ >>> >>> where it is claimed up to 90% efficiency. >>> >>> A nice picture of a fiberglass, resin, and carbon fiber flywheel at >>> >>> http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/efficiency/4337758 >>> >>> Anyway, I've been wondering recently what kind of energy in/energy out efficiency >>> is possible, theoretically or with current technology, if you use electricity to >>> split water into hydrogen and oxygen, then burn the hydrogen/oxygen to drive a generator >>> to make electriciy. >>> >>> The question could probably be more sharply formulated; I haven't had any easy success >>> finding an answer by browsing around on the net. >>> >>> Maybe you energy geeks can help me out? :-) >>> >>> Thanx! >> >> It looks something like this...starting from initial fuel...oil/coal.. >> >> Oil/Coal-100 units of push...turbine-50 units....line loss-45 >> units...electrolysis-22.5 units...hydrogen-stores 22.5 units.....ic >> engine-5.5 units....generator/electric motor-5 units of push >> >> hope helps...have fun....sno > > Unhelpful. > > Also, the initial fuel for generating the electricity is /don't care/. > > -- > hz OK....then lets try it like this... efficiency of turbine/generator 50 percent line loss 1 percent electrolysis 50 percent ic engine 25 percent generator 95 percent electric motor 95 percent... percentages are approximate hope makes more sense to you.... have fun....sno -- Correct Scientific Terminology: Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments to be generally assumed to be true. Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory. Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true. |