Very cheap wind power
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From: habshi on 19 Jul 2010 17:56 Jim please read carefully. Once these 10m odd 5mw windmills have been built and store energy in compressed air systems all our energy worries will be over excerpt http://news.discovery.com/tech/is-wind-power-green.html Even after wind turbines reach the end of their 30-year lifecycles, the materials can be recycled. �Based on the review looking at the major energy technologies and environmental impact, wind came out on top,� said Mark Z. Jacobson, an engineer at Stanford University. �But it was pretty close with concentrated solar, geothermal, tidal, wave and hydroelectric sources.� Last year, Jacobson and a colleague from the University of California, Davis, drafted a global blueprint for converting 100 percent of the world�s energy use to renewable sources. Wind power is leading the charge due to its minimal carbon footprint compared to energy output. In a nutshell, wind power systems consist of tall, free-standing turbines that convert moving air into usable energy. As wind pushes the turbine blades around, the spinning motion turns the turbine rotor, which then drives the shaft of an electric generator housed within the turbine. Transmission lines can then deliver the wind-generated electricity from prime wind energy areas, like the Great Plains, to various locations. In fact, just 15 percent of the land on Earth has enough wind speed capacity to meet global energy needs many times over, Jacobson said. Consequently, U.S. energy policy calls for 20 percent of the nation�s total energy use to come from wind power by 2030, which is a modest proposal in light of its impressive potential. �You can power the entire U.S. vehicle fleet if you converted it to electric with about 100,000 5-megawatt wind turbines,� Jacobson told Discovery News. The actual ground space required for such a project? According to Jacobson�s calculation, less than 2 square kilometers. That doesn�t include the spacing between turbines, but well-designed wind power systems can preserve the integrity of green space surrounding turbines and minimize any disruptions to indigenous wildlife, especially compared to habitat destruction associated with coal mining and fossil fuel drilling. �The land area required for wind is by far the lowest of all alternative energy technologies. It�s just the turbine touching the ground,� Jacobson said. As wind energy technology improves, offshore turbines situated in the ocean could further reduce the total land space required for wind energy systems.
From: jimp on 19 Jul 2010 18:11 In sci.physics habshi(a)anony.net wrote: > Jim please read carefully. Once these 10m odd 5mw windmills have > been built and store energy in compressed air systems all our energy > worries will be over You are an idiot. Read this carefully: "Windfarms only giving half power" http://www.scotsman.com/news/Windfarms-only-giving-half-power.6426015.jp -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply.
From: Sevenhundred Elves on 19 Jul 2010 21:37 habshi(a)anony.net wrote: > Jim please read carefully. Once these 10m odd 5mw windmills have > been built and store energy in compressed air systems all our energy > worries will be over > Compressed air systems? Why not giant clockwork springs, while we're at it? I wouldn't be surprised if there are less losses in those than in compressed air systems. Crank them up, see the wheels spin! Seriously though, for electric energy storage on a larger scale the Vanadium battery seems to be the way to go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery S.
From: herbzet on 20 Jul 2010 22:49 Sevenhundred Elves wrote: > habshi(a)anony.net wrote: > > > Jim please read carefully. Once these 10m odd 5mw windmills have > > been built and store energy in compressed air systems all our energy > > worries will be over > > > > Compressed air systems? Why not giant clockwork springs, while we're at > it? I wouldn't be surprised if there are less losses in those than in > compressed air systems. Crank them up, see the wheels spin! > > Seriously though, for electric energy storage on a larger scale the > Vanadium battery seems to be the way to go: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery Hi, Read the article, claims charge/discharge efficiency of 75-80%. This is comparable to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity wherin it is claimed 70-80% efficiency, also compare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2009/11/25/200-flywheels-will-back-up-new-yorks-energy-grid-starting-2011/ where it is claimed up to 90% efficiency. A nice picture of a fiberglass, resin, and carbon fiber flywheel at http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/efficiency/4337758 Anyway, I've been wondering recently what kind of energy in/energy out efficiency is possible, theoretically or with current technology, if you use electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen, then burn the hydrogen/oxygen to drive a generator to make electriciy. The question could probably be more sharply formulated; I haven't had any easy success finding an answer by browsing around on the net. Maybe you energy geeks can help me out? :-) Thanx! -- hz
From: sno on 21 Jul 2010 03:05
On 7/20/2010 10:49 PM, herbzet wrote: > > > Sevenhundred Elves wrote: >> habshi(a)anony.net wrote: >> >>> Jim please read carefully. Once these 10m odd 5mw windmills have >>> been built and store energy in compressed air systems all our energy >>> worries will be over >>> >> >> Compressed air systems? Why not giant clockwork springs, while we're at >> it? I wouldn't be surprised if there are less losses in those than in >> compressed air systems. Crank them up, see the wheels spin! >> >> Seriously though, for electric energy storage on a larger scale the >> Vanadium battery seems to be the way to go: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery > > Hi, > > Read the article, claims charge/discharge efficiency of 75-80%. > > This is comparable to > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity > > wherin it is claimed 70-80% efficiency, also compare > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage > http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2009/11/25/200-flywheels-will-back-up-new-yorks-energy-grid-starting-2011/ > > where it is claimed up to 90% efficiency. > > A nice picture of a fiberglass, resin, and carbon fiber flywheel at > > http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/efficiency/4337758 > > Anyway, I've been wondering recently what kind of energy in/energy out efficiency > is possible, theoretically or with current technology, if you use electricity to > split water into hydrogen and oxygen, then burn the hydrogen/oxygen to drive a generator > to make electriciy. > > The question could probably be more sharply formulated; I haven't had any easy success > finding an answer by browsing around on the net. > > Maybe you energy geeks can help me out? :-) > > Thanx! > > -- > hz It looks something like this...starting from initial fuel...oil/coal.. Oil/Coal-100 units of push...turbine-50 units....line loss-45 units...electrolysis-22.5 units...hydrogen-stores 22.5 units.....ic engine-5.5 units....generator/electric motor-5 units of push hope helps...have fun....sno -- Correct Scientific Terminology: Hypothesis - a guess as to why or how something occurs Theory - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments to be generally assumed to be true. Law - a hypothesis that has been checked by enough experiments in enough different ways that it is assumed to be truer then a theory. Note: nothing is proven in science, things are assumed to be true. |