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From: carlip-nospam on 1 Mar 2010 12:17
James Dow Allen <jdallen2000(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

[...]
> Lately two readers have sent me e-mail implying that I've been deluded
> into thinking Einstein was really so great!
> Here's just an example of several claims I've received:

> > There is no question that Hilbert presented the General Theory of
> > Relativity before Einstein did.
> > Einstein rushed his General Relativity paper into publication in a
> > panic when he saw that Hilbert had already presented his own Theory.

> My question for the ng is: Is there any valid basis whatsoever to
> such arguments of plagiarism or against Einstein's "greatness"?

No. At one time, there was an issue -- while Einstein clearly initiated
the geometric approach to gravity, Einstein and Hilbert published
the final version of the field equations at almost the same time. But
the discovery of the page proofs of Hilbert's paper a few years ago
put to rest the idea that Einstein might have taken the final form
from Hilbert. This is discussed in the paper "Belated Decision in
the Hilbert-Einstein Priority Dispute," Corry et al., Science Magazine
278 (14 November 1997) pp. 1270 - 1273. You may also be able to get
a pdf version of a longer discussion in an article by Stachel through
Google Scholar (look up "Einstein Hilbert priority") -- I'm not sure
if it's open accesss.

> I e-mailed one correspondent that such talk may have originated with
> anti-Semitic Nazi propaganda, which naturally infuriated him!

Many of the claims on this matter originate from open anti-Semites,
though mostly postdating Nazi Germany. You will also undoubtedly
riun into conspiracy theorists claiming that the historical record
has been altered to protect Einstein.

Steve Carlip
From: Marvin the Martian on 1 Mar 2010 12:35
On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 08:52:17 -0800, Urion wrote:

> Yes I have to admit Einstein was a mathematical genius.

She sure was!

> He mastery of
> differential geometry, tensors, manifolds and all that was in advance
> for his time.

Learned it from his wife.

> But he wasn't a good physicist since manipulating complicated
> mathematical equations doesn't equal of being a good physicist.
>
> That is just my opinion. You may see it differently.

From: James Dow Allen on 1 Mar 2010 12:51
On Mar 2, 12:17 am, carlip-nos...(a)physics.ucdavis.edu wrote:
> No.  At one time, there was an issue -- while Einstein clearly initiated
> the geometric approach to gravity, Einstein and Hilbert published
> the final version of the field equations at almost the same time.  But
> the discovery of the page proofs of Hilbert's paper a few years ago
> put to rest the idea that Einstein might have taken the final form
> from Hilbert.

Thank you for your prompt and helpful reply.
The claim seemed doubtful, but I wanted to be sure.

My prediction of a large number of ferocious useless responses
was borne out! I want to address one.

Martin the Martian wrote:
> So, you copped an argument ad hitlerium, and you wonder
> why someone got upset with you? I already don't like you.
> :-D LOL! Godwin's law, you lose!

Sorry you don't like me, Martin! I'm not one for Nazi
exaggerations, but my correspondent's claim startled me
greatly! He provided two references, both by Bjerknes;
I Google'd Bjerknes, found the anti-Semitic suggestion,
yet remained open-minded enough to pose the question here.

Sorry again for stirring up flames in the ng.

James
From: Marvin the Martian on 1 Mar 2010 12:55
On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 09:51:06 -0800, James Dow Allen wrote:

> On Mar 2, 12:17 am, carlip-nos...(a)physics.ucdavis.edu wrote:
>> No.  At one time, there was an issue -- while Einstein clearly
>> initiated the geometric approach to gravity, Einstein and Hilbert
>> published the final version of the field equations at almost the same
>> time.  But the discovery of the page proofs of Hilbert's paper a few
>> years ago put to rest the idea that Einstein might have taken the final
>> form from Hilbert.
>
> Thank you for your prompt and helpful reply. The claim seemed doubtful,
> but I wanted to be sure.
>
> My prediction of a large number of ferocious useless responses was borne
> out! I want to address one.
>
> Martin the Martian wrote:
>> So, you copped an argument ad hitlerium, and you wonder why someone got
>> upset with you? I already don't like you. :-D LOL! Godwin's law, you
>> lose!
>
> Sorry you don't like me, Martin! I'm not one for Nazi exaggerations,
> but my correspondent's claim startled me greatly! He provided two
> references, both by Bjerknes; I Google'd Bjerknes, found the
> anti-Semitic suggestion, yet remained open-minded enough to pose the
> question here.
>
> Sorry again for stirring up flames in the ng.
>
> James

I see. I point out all the famous things that Einstein is famous for and
who really thought them up, and you're only reply is to focus on the fact
you gibbered some mindless Hitler fallacy and then you wonder why that
person flamed you because you called him a Nazi.

You're not only ignorant of physics, but logic as well.

There is good reason to say that Einstein borrowed heavily from others.
Very good reason. Only fools dismiss that as Nazism.
From: Uncle Ben on 1 Mar 2010 13:48
On Mar 1, 12:51 pm, James Dow Allen <jdallen2...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mar 2, 12:17 am, carlip-nos...(a)physics.ucdavis.edu wrote:
>
> > No.  At one time, there was an issue -- while Einstein clearly initiated
> > the geometric approach to gravity, Einstein and Hilbert published
> > the final version of the field equations at almost the same time.  But
> > the discovery of the page proofs of Hilbert's paper a few years ago
> > put to rest the idea that Einstein might have taken the final form
> > from Hilbert.
>
> Thank you for your prompt and helpful reply.
> The claim seemed doubtful, but I wanted to be sure.
>
> My prediction of a large number of ferocious useless responses
> was borne out!  I want to address one.
>
> Martin the Martian wrote:
> > So, you copped an argument ad hitlerium, and you wonder
> > why someone got upset with you? I already don't like you.
> > :-D LOL! Godwin's law, you lose!
>
> Sorry you don't like me, Martin!  I'm not one for Nazi
> exaggerations, but my correspondent's claim startled me
> greatly!  He provided two references, both by Bjerknes;
> I Google'd Bjerknes, found the anti-Semitic suggestion,
> yet remained open-minded enough to pose the question here.
>
> Sorry again for stirring up flames in the ng.
>
> James

James, you managed to catch a rare response by Steve Carlip, who is
probably the most respected voice in this ng. Most important figures
in the field ignore this kook-infested ng. It's a pity.

Consider yourself lucky. And thank you for posting this interesting
question.
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