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From: TheM on 28 Mar 2010 17:05
"Nico Coesel" <nico(a)puntnl.niks> wrote in message news:4bad36dd.1738952703(a)news.planet.nl...
> "TheM" <DontNeedSpam(a)test.com> wrote:
>
>>"Nico Coesel" <nico(a)puntnl.niks> wrote in message news:4bacf169.1721173156(a)news.planet.nl...
>>> "TheM" <DontNeedSpam(a)test.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP(a)interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message news:5elnq5d2ncjvs91v1cu5dmt5tbntuhefg3(a)4ax.com...
>>>>> On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 13:19:46 -0800, "Bob Eld" <nsmontassoc(a)yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Peter" <nospam(a)nospam9876.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:9lhmq5plg1gr3sduo9n52mdi5g6iiqucqc(a)4ax.com...
>>>>>>> They have doubled their prices and the lead times are 18 weeks.
>>>>
>>>>Is this limited to EEPROM/Memory only or uCPU as well?
>>>>
>>>>Definitely worth considering getting out of AVR.
>>>>Do NPX ARM come with on-chip FLASH?
>>>
>>> Yes, all of them have 128 bit wide flash that allows zero waitstate
>>> execution at the maximum CPU clock.
>>
>>Not bad, I ordered a couple books on ARM off Amazon, may get into it finally.
>>From what I see they are same price as AVR mega, low power and much faster.
>>And NXP is very generous with samples.
>
> The books on ARM may be too generic. Most of the things you need to
> know are in the user manual and the datasheet. NXP's Cortex based
> LPC1000 series need no assembly at all to get running. Even interrupt
> routines do not need special care.

The datasheet I've seen for one of the NXP ARM did not seem as elaborate as Atmel usually supplies. Probably need general family
user manual to cover gray areas.

M


From: Leon on 28 Mar 2010 18:39
On 28 Mar, 22:05, "TheM" <DontNeedS...(a)test.com> wrote:
> "Nico Coesel" <n...(a)puntnl.niks> wrote in messagenews:4bad36dd.1738952703(a)news.planet.nl...
> > "TheM" <DontNeedS...(a)test.com> wrote:
>
> >>"Nico Coesel" <n...(a)puntnl.niks> wrote in messagenews:4bacf169.1721173156(a)news.planet.nl...
> >>> "TheM" <DontNeedS...(a)test.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>"Spehro Pefhany" <speffS...(a)interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in messagenews:5elnq5d2ncjvs91v1cu5dmt5tbntuhefg3(a)4ax.com...
> >>>>> On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 13:19:46 -0800, "Bob Eld" <nsmontas...(a)yahoo.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>"Peter" <nos...(a)nospam9876.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:9lhmq5plg1gr3sduo9n52mdi5g6iiqucqc(a)4ax.com...
> >>>>>>> They have doubled their prices and the lead times are 18 weeks.
>
> >>>>Is this limited to EEPROM/Memory only or uCPU as well?
>
> >>>>Definitely worth considering getting out of AVR.
> >>>>Do NPX ARM come with on-chip FLASH?
>
> >>> Yes, all of them have 128 bit wide flash that allows zero waitstate
> >>> execution at the maximum CPU clock.
>
> >>Not bad, I ordered a couple books on ARM off Amazon, may get into it finally.
> >>From what I see they are same price as AVR mega, low power and much faster.
> >>And NXP is very generous with samples.
>
> > The books on ARM may be too generic. Most of the things you need to
> > know are in the user manual and the datasheet. NXP's Cortex based
> > LPC1000 series need no assembly at all to get running. Even interrupt
> > routines do not need special care.
>
> The datasheet I've seen for one of the NXP ARM did not seem as elaborate as Atmel usually supplies. Probably need general family
> user manual to cover gray areas.
>
> M

The User Manual is essential, the data sheet only has the pinouts and
the electrical characteristics.
From: Nico Coesel on 28 Mar 2010 18:55
"TheM" <DontNeedSpam(a)test.com> wrote:

>"Nico Coesel" <nico(a)puntnl.niks> wrote in message news:4bad36dd.1738952703(a)news.planet.nl...
>> "TheM" <DontNeedSpam(a)test.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Nico Coesel" <nico(a)puntnl.niks> wrote in message news:4bacf169.1721173156(a)news.planet.nl...
>>>> "TheM" <DontNeedSpam(a)test.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP(a)interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message news:5elnq5d2ncjvs91v1cu5dmt5tbntuhefg3(a)4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 13:19:46 -0800, "Bob Eld" <nsmontassoc(a)yahoo.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Peter" <nospam(a)nospam9876.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:9lhmq5plg1gr3sduo9n52mdi5g6iiqucqc(a)4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> They have doubled their prices and the lead times are 18 weeks.
>>>>>
>>>>>Is this limited to EEPROM/Memory only or uCPU as well?
>>>>>
>>>>>Definitely worth considering getting out of AVR.
>>>>>Do NPX ARM come with on-chip FLASH?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, all of them have 128 bit wide flash that allows zero waitstate
>>>> execution at the maximum CPU clock.
>>>
>>>Not bad, I ordered a couple books on ARM off Amazon, may get into it finally.
>>>From what I see they are same price as AVR mega, low power and much faster.
>>>And NXP is very generous with samples.
>>
>> The books on ARM may be too generic. Most of the things you need to
>> know are in the user manual and the datasheet. NXP's Cortex based
>> LPC1000 series need no assembly at all to get running. Even interrupt
>> routines do not need special care.
>
>The datasheet I've seen for one of the NXP ARM did not seem as elaborate as Atmel usually supplies. Probably need general family
>user manual to cover gray areas.

You need the user manual. Just scroll down on NXP's web page for the
specific controller and you'll find it between the appnotes and
example software.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico(a)nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------
From: JosephKK on 28 Mar 2010 19:06
On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 17:27:16 -0700 (PDT), "langwadt(a)fonz.dk" <langwadt(a)fonz.dk> wrote:

>On 27 Mar., 01:02, Ulf Samuelsson <u...(a)a-t-m-e-l.com> wrote:
>> TheM skrev:
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Nico Coesel" <n...(a)puntnl.niks> wrote in messagenews:4bacf169.1721173156(a)news.planet.nl...
>> >> "TheM" <DontNeedS...(a)test.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>> "Spehro Pefhany" <speffS...(a)interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in messagenews:5elnq5d2ncjvs91v1cu5dmt5tbntuhefg3(a)4ax.com...
>> >>>> On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 13:19:46 -0800, "Bob Eld" <nsmontas...(a)yahoo.com>
>> >>>> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>> "Peter" <nos...(a)nospam9876.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>>news:9lhmq5plg1gr3sduo9n52mdi5g6iiqucqc(a)4ax.com...
>> >>>>>> They have doubled their prices and the lead times are 18 weeks.
>> >>> Is this limited to EEPROM/Memory only or uCPU as well?
>>
>> >>> Definitely worth considering getting out of AVR.
>> >>> Do NPX ARM come with on-chip FLASH?
>> >> Yes, all of them have 128 bit wide flash that allows zero waitstate
>> >> execution at the maximum CPU clock.
>>
>> > Not bad, I ordered a couple books on ARM off Amazon, may get into it finally.
>> > From what I see they are same price as AVR mega, low power and much faster.
>> > And NXP is very generous with samples.
>>
>> > M
>>
>> The typical 32 bitters of today are implemented using advanced
>> flash technologies which allows high density memories in small chip
>> areas, but they are not low power.
>>
>> The inherent properties of the process makes for high leakage.
>> When you see power consumption in sleep of around 1-2 uA,
>> this is when the chip is turned OFF.
>> Only a small part of the chip is powered, RTC and a few other things.
>>
>> When you implement in a 0.25u process or higher, you can have the chip
>> fully initialized and ready to react on input while using
>> 1-2 uA in sleep.
>>
>> That is a big difference.
>>
>> While the NXP devices gets zero waitstate from 128 bit bus,
>> this also makes them extremely power hungry.
>> An LPC ARM7 uses about 2 x the current of a SAM7.
>> It gets higher performance in ARM mode.
>>
>> The ARM mode has a price in code size, so if you want more features,
>> then you better run in Thumb mode. The SAM7 with 32 bit flash is
>> actually faster than the LPC when running in Thumb mode,
>> (at the same frequency) since the SAM7 uses as 33 MHz flash,
>> while the LPC uses a 24 Mhz flash.
>> In thumb mode, the 32 bit access gives you two instructions
>> per cycle so in average this gives you 1 instruction per clock on the SAM7.
>>
>
>how does that make any sense? wheter an instruction is 16 or 32bit,
>24MHz * 128bit is still more that 33MHz * 32 bit ...
>
>snip
>
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Ulf Samuelsson
>
>-Lasse

It all starts with Amdahl's Law. Double the speed of one thing and if none
of the rest of the system can use the speed increase you get nothing.
(slightly overstated)
From: Jon Kirwan on 28 Mar 2010 19:29
On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:06:04 -0700,
"JosephKK"<quiettechblue(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

><snip>
>It all starts with Amdahl's Law. Double the speed of one thing and if none
>of the rest of the system can use the speed increase you get nothing.
>(slightly overstated)

Sounds like the famous "weakest link" phrase, "A chain is no
stronger than its weakest link," which apparently traces back
to the English clergyman Charles Kingley's letter, dated
December 1, 1856, where he wrote "The devil is very busy, and
no one knows better than he, that 'nothing is stronger than
its weakest part.'"

Others have also written similarly, since. See very near the
bottom of page 433 here, for example:
http://www.archive.org/stream/workslife10bageuoft#page/432/mode/2up

I guess we can add Amdahl to a long list of many stating the
exact same thing in slightly different words.

Jon
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