'When Are Relations Neither True Nor False? [Logic]

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From: Nam Nguyen on 26 Mar 2010 16:11

Nam Nguyen wrote:
> Alan Smaill wrote:
>> Nam Nguyen <namducnguyen(a)shaw.ca> writes:
>>
>>> Alan Smaill wrote:
>>>> Nam Nguyen <namducnguyen(a)shaw.ca> writes:
>>>>
>>
>>>>> The ultimate logic is one which is relativistic.
>>>> Is that an absolute truth, then?
>>>>
>>>> I know, it's an old ploy, but your position just begs the question.
>>>>
>>> No. It's relative to what we, mortal beings, are entitled to know and to
>>> what existence realm we happen to be in.
>>
>> But that's just your subjective opinion of the situation, isn't it?
>
> That's why nothing is an absolute truth, absolutely true independent of
> any opinion, observation, perception, endowed ability, etc..

Of course abstraction (mathematical or otherwise) is a form of subjective
opinion.

Seriously, if you could demonstrate a truly absolute abstract truth in mathematical
reasoning, I'd leave the forum never coming back.

From: Nam Nguyen on 26 Mar 2010 16:33

Nam Nguyen wrote:
> Nam Nguyen wrote:
>> Alan Smaill wrote:
>>> Nam Nguyen <namducnguyen(a)shaw.ca> writes:
>>>
>>>> Alan Smaill wrote:
>>>>> Nam Nguyen <namducnguyen(a)shaw.ca> writes:
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> The ultimate logic is one which is relativistic.
>>>>> Is that an absolute truth, then?
>>>>>
>>>>> I know, it's an old ploy, but your position just begs the question.
>>>>>
>>>> No. It's relative to what we, mortal beings, are entitled to know
>>>> and to
>>>> what existence realm we happen to be in.
>>>
>>> But that's just your subjective opinion of the situation, isn't it?
>>
>> That's why nothing is an absolute truth, absolutely true independent of
>> any opinion, observation, perception, endowed ability, etc..
>
> Of course abstraction (mathematical or otherwise) is a form of subjective
> opinion.
>
> Seriously, if you could demonstrate a truly absolute abstract truth in
> mathematical reasoning, I'd leave the forum never coming back.

If you can't (general "you") then I'm sorry: my duty to the Zen council,
so to speak, is to see to it that "absolute" truths such as G(PA) is a
thing of the past, if not of oblivion.

From: MoeBlee on 26 Mar 2010 16:34

On Mar 26, 3:11 pm, Nam Nguyen <namducngu...(a)shaw.ca> wrote:
> if you could demonstrate a truly absolute abstract truth in mathematical
> reasoning, I'd leave the forum never coming back.

Oh, sweet seduction, please don't tempt me so!

MoeBlee

From: Alan Smaill on 26 Mar 2010 16:46

Nam Nguyen <namducnguyen(a)shaw.ca> writes:

> Nam Nguyen wrote:
>> Nam Nguyen wrote:
>>> Alan Smaill wrote:
>>>> Nam Nguyen <namducnguyen(a)shaw.ca> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Alan Smaill wrote:
>>>>>> Nam Nguyen <namducnguyen(a)shaw.ca> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> The ultimate logic is one which is relativistic.
>>>>>> Is that an absolute truth, then?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know, it's an old ploy, but your position just begs the question.
>>>>>>
>>>>> No. It's relative to what we, mortal beings, are entitled to know
>>>>> and to
>>>>> what existence realm we happen to be in.
>>>>
>>>> But that's just your subjective opinion of the situation, isn't it?
>>>
>>> That's why nothing is an absolute truth, absolutely true independent of
>>> any opinion, observation, perception, endowed ability, etc..
>>
>> Of course abstraction (mathematical or otherwise) is a form of subjective
>> opinion.
>>
>> Seriously, if you could demonstrate a truly absolute abstract truth
>> in mathematical reasoning, I'd leave the forum never coming back.
>
> If you can't (general "you") then I'm sorry: my duty to the Zen council,
> so to speak, is to see to it that "absolute" truths such as G(PA) is a
> thing of the past, if not of oblivion.

one day you will realise that your duty to the Zen council
is to overcome your feeling of duty to what is purely subjective ...

--
Alan Smaill

From: Nam Nguyen on 26 Mar 2010 17:13

Alan Smaill wrote:
> Nam Nguyen <namducnguyen(a)shaw.ca> writes:
>
>> Nam Nguyen wrote:
>>> Nam Nguyen wrote:
>>>> Alan Smaill wrote:
>>>>> Nam Nguyen <namducnguyen(a)shaw.ca> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Alan Smaill wrote:
>>>>>>> Nam Nguyen <namducnguyen(a)shaw.ca> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The ultimate logic is one which is relativistic.
>>>>>>> Is that an absolute truth, then?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know, it's an old ploy, but your position just begs the question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> No. It's relative to what we, mortal beings, are entitled to know
>>>>>> and to
>>>>>> what existence realm we happen to be in.
>>>>> But that's just your subjective opinion of the situation, isn't it?
>>>> That's why nothing is an absolute truth, absolutely true independent of
>>>> any opinion, observation, perception, endowed ability, etc..
>>> Of course abstraction (mathematical or otherwise) is a form of subjective
>>> opinion.
>>>
>>> Seriously, if you could demonstrate a truly absolute abstract truth
>>> in mathematical reasoning, I'd leave the forum never coming back.
>> If you can't (general "you") then I'm sorry: my duty to the Zen council,
>> so to speak, is to see to it that "absolute" truths such as G(PA) is a
>> thing of the past, if not of oblivion.
>
> one day you will realise that your duty to the Zen council
> is to overcome your feeling of duty to what is purely subjective ...

I'm sure your belief in the "absolute" truth of G(PA) is subjective, which
you'd need to overcome - someday. Each of us (including Godel) coming to
mathematics and reasoning has our own subjective "baggage".

Is it FOL, or FOL=, that you've alluded to? For example.