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From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard on 7 May 2010 20:48
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<blockquote
cite="mid:E124E48D-6066-4D35-9AC0-4837D75CA90C(a)microsoft.com"
type="cite">
<p>There are rumors that Microsoft plans to shut down this nntp
server.
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Ahem!&nbsp; "This NNTP server" is a phrase that means different things to
different people.&nbsp; This is Usenet, remember.&nbsp; There <em>isn't</em>
just one node.&nbsp; There are thousands of them.&nbsp; Microsoft has no plans to
shut down <em>my</em> Usenet node, which carries this and several
other newsgroups in the <code>microsoft.*</code> hierarchy.&nbsp; It
couldn't do so even if it wanted to.&nbsp; It's my node, not Microsoft's.</p>
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From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard on 7 May 2010 20:55
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<blockquote cite="mid:uSO8lri7KHA.1888(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>Gee, I wonder why Microsoft themselves refer to them as Usenet
groups...</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This is, as Hector correctly told us, "Microsoft's Usenet" :-)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>No.&nbsp; It's just Usenet.&nbsp; It's a <code>microsoft.*</code> hierarchy
of newsgroups, but that doesn't make it owned, or run, by Microsoft.&nbsp;
Much of what M. Santos is writing in this thread about star networks,
hubs, "backbone listings", and so forth is just complete unadulterated
twaddle.&nbsp; The statements about "owners of newsgroups" are more of the
same, alas.<br>
</p>
<p>Of course, the fact that this is Usenet is almost certainly part of
the problem for Microsoft.&nbsp; It has no control.&nbsp; It was a problem for JP
Software with the <code>comp.os.msdos.4dos</code> newsgroup years ago,
when it pulled out of Usenet and tried to get everyone to instead come
to WWW-based forums that it had full control over.&nbsp; This is Usenet.&nbsp;
There isn't a central authority.</p>
<blockquote cite="mid:uSO8lri7KHA.1888(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl" type="cite">
<p>Usenet technically, but is not set up to be the part of the public
Usenet.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Actually, that's exactly what it <em>is</em> set up to be.&nbsp;
Otherwise I wouldn't have seen your message and you wouldn't be seeing
this message of mine.&nbsp; Don't conflate the Big 8 with Usenet.</p>
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From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard on 7 May 2010 21:03
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<blockquote cite="mid:%23WpUG5e7KHA.3964(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl"
type="cite">
<p>I share concerns expressed by Hector Santos, [...]</p>
</blockquote>
<p>You shouldn't.&nbsp; Hector Santos is talking rubbish.&nbsp; Again.<br>
</p>
<blockquote cite="mid:%23WpUG5e7KHA.3964(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl"
type="cite">
<p>The distributed and free Usenet has its merits,
[...]</p>
</blockquote>
<p>... and is how many people have been accessing these newsgroups for
many years, including anyone posting from Google Groups.&nbsp; This is
Usenet, and these are Usenet newsgroups.<br>
</p>
<blockquote cite="mid:%23WpUG5e7KHA.3964(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl"
type="cite">
<p>If we can continue to use newsreaders rather than web interface
(with all due respect to AJAX....) and still conect to the central MS
server, then this bridge indeed looks like a good solution for me.
</p>
</blockquote>
<p id="line1">You're still making the fundamental mistake of thinking
that there's a "central server".&nbsp; Ignore the Sanotosisms.&nbsp; Xyr
description of what happens is wrong on about six or seven different
counts.&nbsp; Listen to Jochen Kalmbach.&nbsp; Xe has far more clue, here.&nbsp;
Here's some irony for you:&nbsp; If you did what M. Santos said to do and
went to your ISP and looked, you'll probably find that (presuming that
it actually runs a Usenet node at all, of course) your ISP does,
indeed, carry the entire <code>microsoft.*</code> newsgroup hierarchy,
and you could have obtained it from your ISP's Usenet node all along.&nbsp; <br>
</p>
<p id="line1">Most commercial Usenet nodes run by ISPs have,
historically, carried many of these big non-Big8 newsgroup hierarchies.&nbsp;
Usenet isn't just, and never has been, the Big 8.&nbsp; The question is
whether ISPs will continue to carry the <code>microsoft.*</code>
hierarchy in the future.&nbsp; It's more likely, nowadays, given the trend
of recent years, that they'll just discontinue Usenet service outright
than fiddle with adjusting a few lines in active files for one
hierarchy, to be blunt.<br>
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From: Hector Santos on 7 May 2010 22:19
Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:

>
>>
>> There are rumors that Microsoft plans to shut down this nntp server.
>>
> Ahem! "This NNTP server" is a phrase that means different things to
> different people. This is Usenet, remember. There /isn't/ just one
> node. There are thousands of them. Microsoft has no plans to shut down
> /my/ Usenet node, which carries this and several other newsgroups in the
> |microsoft.*| hierarchy. It couldn't do so even if it wanted to. It's
> my node, not Microsoft's.
>


But no one is going to connect to a Troll's node.

--
HLS
From: Hector Santos on 7 May 2010 22:33
Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:

>> If we can continue to use newsreaders rather than web interface (with
>> all due respect to AJAX....) and still conect to the central MS
>> server, then this bridge indeed looks like a good solution for me.
>>
> You're still making the fundamental mistake of thinking that there's a
> "central server". Ignore the Sanotosisms. Xyr description of what
> happens is wrong on about six or seven different counts. Listen to
> Jochen Kalmbach. Xe has far more clue, here. Here's some irony for
> you: If you did what M. Santos said to do and went to your ISP and
> looked, you'll probably find that (presuming that it actually runs a
> Usenet node at all, of course) your ISP does, indeed, carry the entire
> |microsoft.*| newsgroup hierarchy, and you could have obtained it from
> your ISP's Usenet node all along.


Ahh, hence the erroneous presumption that every node carries the
entire usenet feed. WRONG!

Again the TROLL is missing the point.

Once the MS NNTP Server goes down, its chain of nodes including
end-users will no longer get its exchange of microsoft.* only mail.
They have to go else where and thats a MAJOR lost of information and
users and active user support people.

PS: There is one good thing about the MS Forums! No more trolls such
as the Jonathans - which I am sure you won't mind as you won't be able
to handle anything you can't cross post all over the place.

--
HLS
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