Why SAS programmers need to be aware of perl and R
in [SAS]
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From: Mike Rhoads on 3 Mar 2010 17:49 Actually, I believe it was PROC FSCALC. I can't remember whether it was part of Base SAS or SAS/FSP (as the name would suggest). There are still a couple of references to it buried on sas.com. ;-) Mike Rhoads RhoadsM1(a)Westat.com -----Original Message----- From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Burton Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 3:42 PM To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Why SAS programmers need to be aware of perl and R Yep, that's what I thought it was, but didn't want to say so, be incorrect and appear the fool. I tried to use it to develop a project for a client (the company comptroller's secretary), but she didn't like it. So, I had to simulate another spreadsheet using Data Step Programming and SAS/FSE. Best Cheers, Ray Burton Richmond VA AnalyticBridge, inCircle, Linked-In, MedZilla, SAS/L, IT-Toolbox http://www.analyticbridge.com/profile/rayburton/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnrayburton/ http://it.toolbox.com/people/ray_burton/?pv=1/ On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 3:36 PM, F. J. Kelley <jkelley(a)uga.edu> wrote: > proc CALC? > > I don't believe I ever used it. > > ---- Original message ---- >>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 15:32:16 -0500 >>From: "SAS(r) Discussion" <SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> (on behalf of John >>Burton <jrburtonsaspro(a)GMAIL.COM>) >>Subject: Re: [SAS-L] Why SAS programmers need to be aware of perl and >>R >>To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU >> >>On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 1:50 PM, F. J. Kelley <jkelley(a)uga.edu> wrote: >>> I wondered if any other old timer would remember this. Proc Matrix was removed as of V6, but had been a staple of SAS in the years before. With Matrix you could write stat procs which did not exist in SAS/Stat (at the time). >>> >> >>I wonder if the old-timers and the spreadsheet proc that was in Base >>SAS back in the 80s? I don't remember the name of the proc, but that >>it soon disappeared as some PC shreadsheet was the dominent software >>at the time and that has now been replaced by MS/Excell. >> >>-- >>Best Cheers, >>Ray Burton
From: Alan Churchill on 3 Mar 2010 19:10 I thought it was part of SAS/Calc, a separate product. That takes me all the way back to the mainframe... Alan Alan Churchill Savian www.savian.net Office: (719) 687-5954 Cell: (719) 310-4870 -----Original Message----- From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Rhoads Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 3:50 PM To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Why SAS programmers need to be aware of perl and R Actually, I believe it was PROC FSCALC. I can't remember whether it was part of Base SAS or SAS/FSP (as the name would suggest). There are still a couple of references to it buried on sas.com. ;-) Mike Rhoads RhoadsM1(a)Westat.com -----Original Message----- From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Burton Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 3:42 PM To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Why SAS programmers need to be aware of perl and R Yep, that's what I thought it was, but didn't want to say so, be incorrect and appear the fool. I tried to use it to develop a project for a client (the company comptroller's secretary), but she didn't like it. So, I had to simulate another spreadsheet using Data Step Programming and SAS/FSE. Best Cheers, Ray Burton Richmond VA AnalyticBridge, inCircle, Linked-In, MedZilla, SAS/L, IT-Toolbox http://www.analyticbridge.com/profile/rayburton/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnrayburton/ http://it.toolbox.com/people/ray_burton/?pv=1/ On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 3:36 PM, F. J. Kelley <jkelley(a)uga.edu> wrote: > proc CALC? > > I don't believe I ever used it. > > ---- Original message ---- >>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 15:32:16 -0500 >>From: "SAS(r) Discussion" <SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> (on behalf of John >>Burton <jrburtonsaspro(a)GMAIL.COM>) >>Subject: Re: [SAS-L] Why SAS programmers need to be aware of perl and >>R >>To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU >> >>On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 1:50 PM, F. J. Kelley <jkelley(a)uga.edu> wrote: >>> I wondered if any other old timer would remember this. Proc Matrix was removed as of V6, but had been a staple of SAS in the years before. With Matrix you could write stat procs which did not exist in SAS/Stat (at the time). >>> >> >>I wonder if the old-timers and the spreadsheet proc that was in Base >>SAS back in the 80s? I don't remember the name of the proc, but that >>it soon disappeared as some PC shreadsheet was the dominent software >>at the time and that has now been replaced by MS/Excell. >> >>-- >>Best Cheers, >>Ray Burton
From: Nathaniel Wooding on 4 Mar 2010 07:33 I still have a copy of the V6 Master Index to SAS System Documentation. It indicates that there was a manual for SAS/Calc and that was Proc FSCALC (so my memory jives with Mikes). If anyone as a copy of P-222, there appears to be some note on the product there. Nat -----Original Message----- From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Alan Churchill Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 7:10 PM To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Why SAS programmers need to be aware of perl and R I thought it was part of SAS/Calc, a separate product. That takes me all the way back to the mainframe... Alan Alan Churchill Savian www.savian.net Office: (719) 687-5954 Cell: (719) 310-4870 -----Original Message----- From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Rhoads Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 3:50 PM To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Why SAS programmers need to be aware of perl and R Actually, I believe it was PROC FSCALC. I can't remember whether it was part of Base SAS or SAS/FSP (as the name would suggest). There are still a couple of references to it buried on sas.com. ;-) Mike Rhoads RhoadsM1(a)Westat.com -----Original Message----- From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Burton Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 3:42 PM To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Why SAS programmers need to be aware of perl and R Yep, that's what I thought it was, but didn't want to say so, be incorrect and appear the fool. I tried to use it to develop a project for a client (the company comptroller's secretary), but she didn't like it. So, I had to simulate another spreadsheet using Data Step Programming and SAS/FSE. Best Cheers, Ray Burton Richmond VA AnalyticBridge, inCircle, Linked-In, MedZilla, SAS/L, IT-Toolbox http://www.analyticbridge.com/profile/rayburton/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnrayburton/ http://it.toolbox.com/people/ray_burton/?pv=1/ On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 3:36 PM, F. J. Kelley <jkelley(a)uga.edu> wrote: > proc CALC? > > I don't believe I ever used it. > > ---- Original message ---- >>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 15:32:16 -0500 >>From: "SAS(r) Discussion" <SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> (on behalf of John >>Burton <jrburtonsaspro(a)GMAIL.COM>) >>Subject: Re: [SAS-L] Why SAS programmers need to be aware of perl and >>R >>To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU >> >>On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 1:50 PM, F. J. Kelley <jkelley(a)uga.edu> wrote: >>> I wondered if any other old timer would remember this. Proc Matrix was removed as of V6, but had been a staple of SAS in the years before. With Matrix you could write stat procs which did not exist in SAS/Stat (at the time). >>> >> >>I wonder if the old-timers and the spreadsheet proc that was in Base >>SAS back in the 80s? I don't remember the name of the proc, but that >>it soon disappeared as some PC shreadsheet was the dominent software >>at the time and that has now been replaced by MS/Excell. >> >>-- >>Best Cheers, >>Ray Burton CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic message contains information which may be legally confidential and or privileged and does not in any case represent a firm ENERGY COMMODITY bid or offer relating thereto which binds the sender without an additional express written confirmation to that effect. The information is intended solely for the individual or entity named above and access by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you.
From: Mike Rhoads on 4 Mar 2010 08:09 Alan, You are absolutely correct! Take a look at http://www.uc.edu/sashtml/ets/chap1/sect30.htm, for a blast from the past. Or http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1555444555/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all. Mike Rhoads RhoadsM1(a)Westat.com -----Original Message----- From: Alan Churchill [mailto:alan.churchill(a)savian.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 7:10 PM To: Mike Rhoads; SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: RE: Why SAS programmers need to be aware of perl and R I thought it was part of SAS/Calc, a separate product. That takes me all the way back to the mainframe... Alan Alan Churchill Savian www.savian.net Office: (719) 687-5954 Cell: (719) 310-4870 -----Original Message----- From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Rhoads Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 3:50 PM To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Why SAS programmers need to be aware of perl and R Actually, I believe it was PROC FSCALC. I can't remember whether it was part of Base SAS or SAS/FSP (as the name would suggest). There are still a couple of references to it buried on sas.com. ;-) Mike Rhoads RhoadsM1(a)Westat.com -----Original Message----- From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Burton Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 3:42 PM To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Why SAS programmers need to be aware of perl and R Yep, that's what I thought it was, but didn't want to say so, be incorrect and appear the fool. I tried to use it to develop a project for a client (the company comptroller's secretary), but she didn't like it. So, I had to simulate another spreadsheet using Data Step Programming and SAS/FSE. Best Cheers, Ray Burton Richmond VA AnalyticBridge, inCircle, Linked-In, MedZilla, SAS/L, IT-Toolbox http://www.analyticbridge.com/profile/rayburton/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnrayburton/ http://it.toolbox.com/people/ray_burton/?pv=1/ On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 3:36 PM, F. J. Kelley <jkelley(a)uga.edu> wrote: > proc CALC? > > I don't believe I ever used it. > > ---- Original message ---- >>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 15:32:16 -0500 >>From: "SAS(r) Discussion" <SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> (on behalf of John >>Burton <jrburtonsaspro(a)GMAIL.COM>) >>Subject: Re: [SAS-L] Why SAS programmers need to be aware of perl and >>R >>To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU >> >>On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 1:50 PM, F. J. Kelley <jkelley(a)uga.edu> wrote: >>> I wondered if any other old timer would remember this. Proc Matrix >>> was removed as of V6, but had been a staple of SAS in the years before. With Matrix you could write stat procs which did not exist in SAS/Stat (at the time). >>> >> >>I wonder if the old-timers and the spreadsheet proc that was in Base >>SAS back in the 80s? I don't remember the name of the proc, but that >>it soon disappeared as some PC shreadsheet was the dominent software >>at the time and that has now been replaced by MS/Excell. >> >>-- >>Best Cheers, >>Ray Burton
From: Jonathan Goldberg on 4 Mar 2010 11:55
Three little points: 1) Dale: You're not really taking exception; I wrote: >>that's why the R interface in in IML; OTHER PARTS OF SAS don't >> have any data type that loosely corresponds to an R frame. In other words, I agree that an R frame and a SAS data set are very similar; it's just that only IML has any facilities for manipulating SAS data sets as entities. (Unless perhaps you count the table processing language). 2)Like others on this thread, I admire Alan's reader and may well find uses for it. My comment about reliability was not intended as criticism of the reader; I meant that SAS feels free to change the format of their proprietary data sets any time they feel like it. This would break the reader through no fault of Alan's programming. Only they know when or whether that will happen. 3)Proc Matrix! Proc BMDP! I tell you, it warms the cockels of my heart to know that others here are as ancient as I am and are even willing to admit it. While we're going down memory lane we might recall that SAS once had as a design goal running in 196K of memory. Which is why, unlike R, it doesn't operate by putting the whole data set in memory, convenient as that is. On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 10:20:09 -0800, Dale McLerran <stringplayer_2(a)YAHOO.COM> wrote: >--- On Wed, 3/3/10, Jonathan Goldberg <jgoldberg(a)BIOMEDSYS.COM> wrote: > >> From: Jonathan Goldberg <jgoldberg(a)BIOMEDSYS.COM> >> Subject: Re: Why SAS programmers need to be aware of perl and R >> To: SAS-L(a)LISTSERV.UGA.EDU >> Date: Wednesday, March 3, 2010, 7:27 AM >> I agree with xlr82sas. Doing a SAS-R or SAS-Perl interface is SI's job, >> because they have a closed product with a proprietary data format. >> Reading and writing SAS data sets can only be done reliably with SAS >> tools, which are not redistribuable. >> >> It must be said that SAS has interfaces to both; remember the Perl data >> step object. >> >> The problem with building interfaces is with data type translations. I >> assume that's why the R interface in in IML; other parts of SAS don't >> have any data type that loosely corresponds to an R frame. Likewise >> with Perl; SAS functions cannot return arrays (and other data types). > >Having used the IML Studio product to run R code directly from >SAS, I have to take exception with the statement that SAS does not >have any data type that loosely corresponds to an R data frame. >The R data frame is really quite like a SAS data set. The R data >frame is a rectangular structure with columns (variables) and rows >(observations). Each column has n rows and each column is of type >character, numeric, logical, or complex. SAS does not have logical >or complex data types. However, logical data types are translated >as binary values (FALSE=0, TRUE=1). Complex data types are not >translated, so they are a problem for SAS. But most data frames >are not going to have columns which are complex numbers. Thus, >for the most part, an R data frame and a SAS data set can be >considered as equivalent data types. > >In fact, when one runs the IML Studio function ExportDataSetToR, >an R data frame is created. SAS regards the R data frame as a >structure which is equivalent to a SAS data set. Thus, the >argument presented by Jonathan is not a reason for a lack of >an interface to R from Base SAS. > >> >> To my mind this is an arguement for moving IML to Base. > >Now, I would really like to see that! However, I am not sure how >that would be implemented. But I have long maintained that SAS >will lose ground to other languages which fully integrate matrix >processing with other components of the language. > >> >> So, while I think it's SI's job, that job presents problems with no >> obvious (at least to me) solutions. >> > >I do believe that SI could construct an interface to R from Base >SAS if they really wanted to. R is not going away, but is >siphoning users away from SAS. SAS will do best in the long >run to fully recognize R and make available to users the ability >to conveniently access R. To most users, that means being able >to invoke R from Base SAS. I know that it could be done if SI >put their minds to it! > >--------------------------------------- >Dale McLerran >Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center >mailto: dmclerra(a)NO_SPAMfhcrc.org >Ph: (206) 667-2926 >Fax: (206) 667-5977 >--------------------------------------- |