Will PHP ever "grow up" and have threading?
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From: Ashley Sheridan on 24 Mar 2010 21:28 On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 21:21 -0400, Matt Giddings wrote: > ok, how do I get off this list? you either follow the instructions on the page that you used to sign up to the list, or send an email to the email address listed in header of all emails from the list. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
From: Michelle Konzack on 24 Mar 2010 21:45 Hello Teus, You are a NOOB! ;-) You have not understood what he want. Am 2010-03-24 06:55:56, hacktest Du folgendes herunter: > Well, the multiple answers for a simple request per user as in your > example, seem to be a lot of information to display all on one page, and > present all that information to the user in one request. I would > probably resolve it, IMHO, by using pagers. That is, only part of the > information is shown to the user at one time, and the user can page > through that information so as to get to other bits of information. If > only part is shown, then the database query becomes so much faster > (hopefully), and PHP still can do all of it in one thread. He need threading because if you transform SAO Image (the NASA program) into a WebApp, you have to multi-query a 28 TByte Database and if ou make sequetial queries it take 24 hours to run and you get a server timout. using multi-threading will give you the result in 1 minutes but a serverload of 100% with an loadaverage of 50 should for him no problem Hell, I run a bunch of small Sun Fire X4100M2 with 3 SAS drives of 76 GB and it can handel a 10 GE Internet access plus a PostgreSQL cluster behind it with more then 25000 requets per second... I was never thinking off adding threading to PHP. It realy sounds braindamaged For such things here are optimized languages. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator 24V Electronic Engineer Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ ##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant ##################### <http://www.tamay-dogan.net/> Michelle Konzack <http://www.can4linux.org/> Apt. 917 <http://www.flexray4linux.org/> 50, rue de Soultz Jabber linux4michelle(a)jabber.ccc.de 67100 Strabourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) Tel. DE: +49 177 9351947 ICQ #328449886 Tel. FR: +33 6 61925193
From: Michelle Konzack on 24 Mar 2010 22:03 Hello Tommy Pham, Am 2010-03-23 18:17:56, hacktest Du folgendes herunter: > Let's go back to my 1st e-commerce example. The manufacturers list is > about 3,700. The categories is about about 2,400. The products list > is right now at 500,000 and expected to be around 750,000. The site > is only in English. The store owner wants to expand and be I18n: > Chinese, French, German, Korean, Spanish. You see how big and complex > that database gets? The store owners want to have this happens when a > customer clicks on a category: I have something like this similar but my database is arround 2 TByte and stored on seven Sun Fire X4150 and I have only two X4100M2 as redunant Front-End. Your 750.000 items look a little bit like a gadget database... I habe several 10 million rows and 200 columns and this is why I splited the Database into seven Severs. Even threading would not work on this database, because the botleneck is the Disk-IO. A query about the "Irak-War" and "Backwater" would kill a singel server. > * show all subcategories for that category, if any > * show all products for that category, if any, > * show all manufacturers, used as filtering, for that category and subcategories > * show price range filter for that category > * show features & specifications filter for that category > * show 10 top sellers for that category and related subcategories > * the shopper can then select/deselect any of those filters and > ability to sort by manufacturers, prices, user rating, popularity > (purchased quantity) > * have the ability to switch to another language translation on the fly > * from the moment the shopper click on a link, the response time (when > web browser saids "Done" in the status bar) is 5 seconds or less. > Preferably 2-3 seconds. Will be using stopwatch for the timer. Nothing special... Describtion for the products sould be a seperated server Q: Do you real mean, you put 750.000 product describtions into the database and then create a new colum for ech language? Your Mini-Shop could be done with redunancy using two Database- and two Web-Servrs. > is not even enterprise requirement. I may have another possible > project where # products is over 10 million easily. With similar More the 10 mio products? Whats this? I a in the electronic business, and geting 10 mio products, mean, take ANY western manufacturers of microchip manufacturers, passive parts, connectors and such into a database? Put asian manufactures to are arround 30 mio in total. If you say, you put the FITS data from the ESO into it, I could understand, but your explanation is a little but to unbelivable. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator 24V Electronic Engineer Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ ##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant ##################### <http://www.tamay-dogan.net/> Michelle Konzack <http://www.can4linux.org/> Apt. 917 <http://www.flexray4linux.org/> 50, rue de Soultz Jabber linux4michelle(a)jabber.ccc.de 67100 Strabourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) Tel. DE: +49 177 9351947 ICQ #328449886 Tel. FR: +33 6 61925193
From: Tommy Pham on 24 Mar 2010 22:16 On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Michelle Konzack <linux4michelle(a)tamay-dogan.net> wrote: > Hello Tommy Pham, > > Am 2010-03-23 18:17:56, hacktest Du folgendes herunter: >> Let's go back to my 1st e-commerce example.  The manufacturers list is >> about 3,700.  The categories is about about 2,400.  The products list >> is right now at 500,000 and expected to be around 750,000.  The site >> is only in English.  The store owner wants to expand and be I18n: >> Chinese, French, German, Korean, Spanish.  You see how big and complex >> that database gets?  The store owners want to have this happens when a >> customer clicks on a category: > > I have something like this similar but my database  is  arround  2 TByte > and stored on seven Sun Fire X4150  and  I  have  only  two  X4100M2  as > redunant Front-End. > > Your 750.000 items look a little bit like a gadget database... > > I habe several 10 million rows and 200 columns and this is why I splited > the Database into seven Severs. > > Even threading would not work on this database, because the botleneck is > the Disk-IO. > > A query about the "Irak-War" and "Backwater" would kill a singel server. > >> * show all subcategories for that category, if any >> * show all products for that category, if any, >> * show all manufacturers, used as filtering, for that category and subcategories >> * show price range filter for that category >> * show features & specifications filter for that category >> * show 10 top sellers for that category and related subcategories >> * the shopper can then select/deselect any of those filters and >> ability to sort by manufacturers, prices, user rating, popularity >> (purchased quantity) >> * have the ability to switch to another language translation on the fly >> * from the moment the shopper click on a link, the response time (when >> web browser saids "Done" in the status bar) is 5 seconds or less. >> Preferably 2-3 seconds. Will be using stopwatch for the timer. > > Nothing special... > > Describtion for the products sould be a seperated server > > Q:  Do you real mean, you put 750.000 product describtions into >   the database and then create a new colum for ech language? > > Your Mini-Shop could be done with redunancy using two Database- and two > Web-Servrs. > >> is not even enterprise requirement.  I may have another possible >> project where # products is over 10 million easily.  With similar > > More the 10 mio products?  Whats this? > > I a in the electronic business, and geting 10 mio products, mean, take > ANY western manufacturers of microchip manufacturers,  passive  parts, > connectors and such into a database? > > Put asian manufactures to are arround 30 mio in total. > > If you say, you put the  FITS  data  from  the  ESO  into  it,  I  could > understand, but your explanation is a little but to unbelivable. > > Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening >   Michelle Konzack >   Systemadministrator >   24V Electronic Engineer >   Tamay Dogan Network >   Debian GNU/Linux Consultant > > -- > Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ > ##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant ##################### > <http://www.tamay-dogan.net/>         Michelle Konzack > <http://www.can4linux.org/>          Apt. 917 > <http://www.flexray4linux.org/>        50, rue de Soultz > Jabber linux4michelle(a)jabber.ccc.de      67100 Strabourg/France > IRC   #Debian (irc.icq.com)          Tel. DE: +49 177 9351947 > ICQ   #328449886               Tel. FR: +33  6  61925193 > 10+ million products is not hard to believe. Look at Amazon (my future possible project is not related to Amazon nor am I endorsing it). They sell consumer goods. Their product skus are about 30 million, and that's not all the consumer goods there are either.
From: Michelle Konzack on 24 Mar 2010 22:53
Hello Tommy, Am 2010-03-23 19:08:36, hacktest Du folgendes herunter: > The response time, max 5 seconds, will be tested on local gigabit LAN > to ensure the adequate response (optimized DB & code & proper > hardware) without worrying about users' connection limit and site's > upload bandwidth limit (which can easily rectify). Then thereafter > will be doing stress test of about 10 concurrent users. As for the > major queries, that's where threads come in, IMO, because those > queries depend on 1 primary parameter (category ID) and 1 secondary > parameter (language ID). This particular site starts with 500 > products about 15 categories, without many of those mentioned filters, > later grew to its current state. Because not a singel OSS OnlineStore software support features I need for my business, I am coding a whole "Waren Wirtschafts System" with production checkout and an additional OnlineStore where I sell products which I have bought in VERY big quantities to get my Endproducts cheaper in production. I start with bneary the same requiements as you, have 18 main categories and each has 5 to 40 sub categories. Currently I have arround 1700 different products I need for production but over the tieme I count with 30-50.000 products. The server I will use is developed by my own using a Marvell Kirkwood MV78200 with an attached Marvell 8-channel SATA/SAS Raid-0/1/10/5 con- troller. This pig has 2 GByte DDR2 memory and beat anything I have ever used in this class. It is an ARM Microcontroller with 1200MHz. The "Reference Design" I use currently can handel more then 400 requests at once... If such small machine can handel this, I realy think, you do not know what are you talking about... My software (Apache2, PHP5 and PostgreSQL 8.3; Debian GNU/Linux Lenny) installed on this Low-Energy (<17W) machine can be scaled by adding parallel machines to increase performance... The machine without harddrives cost me in production of 1000 pcs less then 300 Euro/machine. I am slightely sure, yo make something wrong... I will not continue to read ths thread, because it is sick. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator 24V Electronic Engineer Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ ##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant ##################### <http://www.tamay-dogan.net/> Michelle Konzack <http://www.can4linux.org/> Apt. 917 <http://www.flexray4linux.org/> 50, rue de Soultz Jabber linux4michelle(a)jabber.ccc.de 67100 Strabourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) Tel. DE: +49 177 9351947 ICQ #328449886 Tel. FR: +33 6 61925193 |