Will PHP ever "grow up" and have threading?
in [General]
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From: Tommy Pham on 25 Mar 2010 15:09 On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Peter Lind <peter.e.lind(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 25 March 2010 19:37, Tommy Pham <tommyhp2(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 3:55 AM, Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> wrote: >>> Tommy Pham wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 1:46 AM, Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> wrote: >>>>>> * If you could implement threads and run those same queries in 2+ >>>>>> threads, the total time saved from queries execution is 1/2 sec or >>>>>> more, which is pass along as the total response time reduced.  Is it >>>>>> worth it for you implement threads if you're a speed freak? >>>>> >>>>> Use mysqlnd - asynchronous mysql queries. >>>>> >>>> >>>> You're assuming that everyone in the PHP world uses MySQL 4.1 or >>>> newer.  What about those who don't? >>> >>> They don't get to use threading, nor asynchronous mysql queries. >>> >>> Come on, you're asking about a future feature in PHP 7.x , but would >>> like to support someone who is seriously backlevel on mysql?? >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Per Jessen, Zürich (16.9°C) >>> >> >> I'm not talking about MySQL 4.0 or older.  I'm talking about other >> RDBMS.  I think you should open your eyes a bit wider and take a look >> at the bigger picture (Firebird, MSSQL, Oracle, PostgreSQL, etc). > > http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.pg-send-query.php > > Looks to me like the PHP postgresql library already handles that. Not > to mention: you're not presenting an argument for threads, you're > presenting an argument for implementing asynchronous queries in the > other DBMS libraries. > > Of course, the problem could also be solved by introducing threads in > PHP. I'd personally guess modifying DBMS libraries would be less > costly, but as I haven't been involved in writing the PHP code my > guess isn't worth much. > > Regards > Peter > I'm presenting the argument for threading. Per is presenting the work around using asynchronous queries via mysqlnd. I did read that link a few days ago, "Although the user can send multiple queries at once, multiple queries cannot be sent over a busy connection. If a query is sent while the connection is busy, it waits until the last query is finished and discards all its results." Which sounds like threads -> multiple connections to not run into that problem.
From: Peter Lind on 25 Mar 2010 15:13 On 25 March 2010 20:09, Tommy Pham <tommyhp2(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Peter Lind <peter.e.lind(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On 25 March 2010 19:37, Tommy Pham <tommyhp2(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 3:55 AM, Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> wrote: >>>> Tommy Pham wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 1:46 AM, Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> wrote: >>>>>>> * If you could implement threads and run those same queries in 2+ >>>>>>> threads, the total time saved from queries execution is 1/2 sec or >>>>>>> more, which is pass along as the total response time reduced.  Is it >>>>>>> worth it for you implement threads if you're a speed freak? >>>>>> >>>>>> Use mysqlnd - asynchronous mysql queries. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You're assuming that everyone in the PHP world uses MySQL 4.1 or >>>>> newer.  What about those who don't? >>>> >>>> They don't get to use threading, nor asynchronous mysql queries. >>>> >>>> Come on, you're asking about a future feature in PHP 7.x , but would >>>> like to support someone who is seriously backlevel on mysql?? >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Per Jessen, Zürich (16.9°C) >>>> >>> >>> I'm not talking about MySQL 4.0 or older.  I'm talking about other >>> RDBMS.  I think you should open your eyes a bit wider and take a look >>> at the bigger picture (Firebird, MSSQL, Oracle, PostgreSQL, etc). >> >> http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.pg-send-query.php >> >> Looks to me like the PHP postgresql library already handles that. Not >> to mention: you're not presenting an argument for threads, you're >> presenting an argument for implementing asynchronous queries in the >> other DBMS libraries. >> >> Of course, the problem could also be solved by introducing threads in >> PHP. I'd personally guess modifying DBMS libraries would be less >> costly, but as I haven't been involved in writing the PHP code my >> guess isn't worth much. >> >> Regards >> Peter >> > > I'm presenting the argument for threading.  Per is presenting the work > around using asynchronous queries via mysqlnd.  I did read that link a > few days ago, "Although the user can send multiple queries at once, > multiple queries cannot be sent over a busy connection. If a query is > sent while the connection is busy, it waits until the last query is > finished and discards all its results."  Which sounds like threads -> > multiple connections to not run into that problem. > Have you looked into what it would cost in development to improve the library? Have you compared that to the cost in development to introduce threads into PHP? No, I don't think you're presenting the argument for threading - but I don't expect you to see it that way. -- <hype> WWW: http://plphp.dk / http://plind.dk LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/plind Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fake51 BeWelcome: Fake51 Couchsurfing: Fake51 </hype>
From: Ashley Sheridan on 25 Mar 2010 15:11 On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 12:09 -0700, Tommy Pham wrote: > On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Peter Lind <peter.e.lind(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 25 March 2010 19:37, Tommy Pham <tommyhp2(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 3:55 AM, Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> wrote: > >>> Tommy Pham wrote: > >>> > >>>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 1:46 AM, Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> wrote: > >>>>>> * If you could implement threads and run those same queries in 2+ > >>>>>> threads, the total time saved from queries execution is 1/2 sec or > >>>>>> more, which is pass along as the total response time reduced. Is it > >>>>>> worth it for you implement threads if you're a speed freak? > >>>>> > >>>>> Use mysqlnd - asynchronous mysql queries. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> You're assuming that everyone in the PHP world uses MySQL 4.1 or > >>>> newer. What about those who don't? > >>> > >>> They don't get to use threading, nor asynchronous mysql queries. > >>> > >>> Come on, you're asking about a future feature in PHP 7.x , but would > >>> like to support someone who is seriously backlevel on mysql?? > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Per Jessen, Zürich (16.9°C) > >>> > >> > >> I'm not talking about MySQL 4.0 or older. I'm talking about other > >> RDBMS. I think you should open your eyes a bit wider and take a look > >> at the bigger picture (Firebird, MSSQL, Oracle, PostgreSQL, etc). > > > > http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.pg-send-query.php > > > > Looks to me like the PHP postgresql library already handles that. Not > > to mention: you're not presenting an argument for threads, you're > > presenting an argument for implementing asynchronous queries in the > > other DBMS libraries. > > > > Of course, the problem could also be solved by introducing threads in > > PHP. I'd personally guess modifying DBMS libraries would be less > > costly, but as I haven't been involved in writing the PHP code my > > guess isn't worth much. > > > > Regards > > Peter > > > > I'm presenting the argument for threading. Per is presenting the work > around using asynchronous queries via mysqlnd. I did read that link a > few days ago, "Although the user can send multiple queries at once, > multiple queries cannot be sent over a busy connection. If a query is > sent while the connection is busy, it waits until the last query is > finished and discards all its results." Which sounds like threads -> > multiple connections to not run into that problem. > Wouldn't there still be the same issue though? If several threads of PHP are all trying to connect to to a database that can only handle a finite number of connections, the database must still wait until a query has been pushed off of it's queue before it can process another. As far as I can see, this isn't an issue that can be solved by threading in PHP, but by allowing more concurrent connections in the database. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
From: Tommy Pham on 25 Mar 2010 15:19 On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Peter Lind <peter.e.lind(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 25 March 2010 20:09, Tommy Pham <tommyhp2(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Peter Lind <peter.e.lind(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> On 25 March 2010 19:37, Tommy Pham <tommyhp2(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 3:55 AM, Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> wrote: >>>>> Tommy Pham wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 1:46 AM, Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> * If you could implement threads and run those same queries in 2+ >>>>>>>> threads, the total time saved from queries execution is 1/2 sec or >>>>>>>> more, which is pass along as the total response time reduced.  Is it >>>>>>>> worth it for you implement threads if you're a speed freak? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Use mysqlnd - asynchronous mysql queries. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You're assuming that everyone in the PHP world uses MySQL 4.1 or >>>>>> newer.  What about those who don't? >>>>> >>>>> They don't get to use threading, nor asynchronous mysql queries. >>>>> >>>>> Come on, you're asking about a future feature in PHP 7.x , but would >>>>> like to support someone who is seriously backlevel on mysql?? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Per Jessen, Zürich (16.9°C) >>>>> >>>> >>>> I'm not talking about MySQL 4.0 or older.  I'm talking about other >>>> RDBMS.  I think you should open your eyes a bit wider and take a look >>>> at the bigger picture (Firebird, MSSQL, Oracle, PostgreSQL, etc). >>> >>> http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.pg-send-query.php >>> >>> Looks to me like the PHP postgresql library already handles that. Not >>> to mention: you're not presenting an argument for threads, you're >>> presenting an argument for implementing asynchronous queries in the >>> other DBMS libraries. >>> >>> Of course, the problem could also be solved by introducing threads in >>> PHP. I'd personally guess modifying DBMS libraries would be less >>> costly, but as I haven't been involved in writing the PHP code my >>> guess isn't worth much. >>> >>> Regards >>> Peter >>> >> >> I'm presenting the argument for threading.  Per is presenting the work >> around using asynchronous queries via mysqlnd.  I did read that link a >> few days ago, "Although the user can send multiple queries at once, >> multiple queries cannot be sent over a busy connection. If a query is >> sent while the connection is busy, it waits until the last query is >> finished and discards all its results."  Which sounds like threads -> >> multiple connections to not run into that problem. >> > > Have you looked into what it would cost in development to improve the > library? Have you compared that to the cost in development to > introduce threads into PHP? No, I don't think you're presenting the > argument for threading - but I don't expect you to see it that way. > Aren't all feature requests must be analyzed the same way? Example, namespace, how many of us actually uses it now when there is an alternative solution- subfolders - that we've been using since who knows how long. I don't know if threads was asked a feature prior namespace was implemented.
From: Tommy Pham on 25 Mar 2010 15:25
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Ashley Sheridan <ash(a)ashleysheridan.co.uk> wrote: > > On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 12:09 -0700, Tommy Pham wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Peter Lind <peter.e.lind(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 25 March 2010 19:37, Tommy Pham <tommyhp2(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 3:55 AM, Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> wrote: > >>> Tommy Pham wrote: > >>> > >>>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 1:46 AM, Per Jessen <per(a)computer.org> wrote: > >>>>>> * If you could implement threads and run those same queries in 2+ > >>>>>> threads, the total time saved from queries execution is 1/2 sec or > >>>>>> more, which is pass along as the total response time reduced.  Is it > >>>>>> worth it for you implement threads if you're a speed freak? > >>>>> > >>>>> Use mysqlnd - asynchronous mysql queries. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> You're assuming that everyone in the PHP world uses MySQL 4.1 or > >>>> newer.  What about those who don't? > >>> > >>> They don't get to use threading, nor asynchronous mysql queries. > >>> > >>> Come on, you're asking about a future feature in PHP 7.x , but would > >>> like to support someone who is seriously backlevel on mysql?? > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Per Jessen, Zürich (16.9°C) > >>> > >> > >> I'm not talking about MySQL 4.0 or older.  I'm talking about other > >> RDBMS.  I think you should open your eyes a bit wider and take a look > >> at the bigger picture (Firebird, MSSQL, Oracle, PostgreSQL, etc). > > > > http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.pg-send-query.php > > > > Looks to me like the PHP postgresql library already handles that. Not > > to mention: you're not presenting an argument for threads, you're > > presenting an argument for implementing asynchronous queries in the > > other DBMS libraries. > > > > Of course, the problem could also be solved by introducing threads in > > PHP. I'd personally guess modifying DBMS libraries would be less > > costly, but as I haven't been involved in writing the PHP code my > > guess isn't worth much. > > > > Regards > > Peter > > > > I'm presenting the argument for threading. Per is presenting the work > around using asynchronous queries via mysqlnd. I did read that link a > few days ago, "Although the user can send multiple queries at once, > multiple queries cannot be sent over a busy connection. If a query is > sent while the connection is busy, it waits until the last query is > finished and discards all its results." Which sounds like threads -> > multiple connections to not run into that problem. > > > Wouldn't there still be the same issue though? > > If several threads of PHP are all trying to connect to to a database that can only handle a finite number of connections, the database must still wait until a query has been pushed off of it's queue before it can process another. As far as I can see, this isn't an issue that can be solved by threading in PHP, but by allowing more concurrent connections in the database. > > Thanks, > Ash > http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk > That's why I asked about the DB utilization earlier. Since the having the threads can open multiple connections and finish the request sooner, it can move on to the next request. Since Java & ASP.NET have connection pooling, this adds to benefit of threads even more. I don't know if PHP has connection pooling now. I haven't code in PHP a some years. Regards, Tommy |