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From: Grant Edwards on 27 Jan 2010 15:34
On 2010-01-27, Todd <todd(a)invalid.com> wrote:
> On 01/27/2010 12:08 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2010-01-27, Todd<todd(a)invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I am confused. When running "X" windows, is the
>>> terminology reversed?
>>
>> Nope. The program requesting the services is the client, the
>> program providing the services is the server.
[...]
>
> Okay. I think I understand. If I rdesktop into a remote machine,
> the local machine is the server as it is doing the actual drawing
> on the screen.

That's the way the nomenclature works for X.

> The remote machine with the application on it
> is the client as it is requesting the drawing.

Yup.

> It all seems backwards to me, but as long as I understand what
> is going on ...

I think you've got it.

> So, if I want to run an "X" windows desktop from a Linux
> server on a M$ Windows machine, I run an "X" server on the M$
> machine.

Yes. The applications running on the remote machine which are
using your display are the clients.

> In this respect, I am use to M$ Terminal Services, where the
> requesting machine is called the server and the drawing
> machine is called the client. My brain hurts.

It all depends on what what you decide the "service" is. I
don't "do Windows", but I presume that from the MS Terminal
Services viewpoint the "service" that is being provided is the
running of the applications on the "server".

The X doesn't provide any such "application running" services.
All it does is handle requests for screen/keyboard/mouse I/O.
If some of the X clients happen to decide to start other X
clients, then the X server will provide I/O services to them as
well. Some clients (e.g. window managers) may use a slightly
different set of services than your average client, but they're
all basically just clients. And there's no rule that says the
clients (including the window manager) need to be running on a
single computer or a single OS.

You can run the server on machine A, the window manager on
machine B, and other "normal" clients on machines C, D, E, and
F if you wish. The only thing the clients have in common is
that they're all accessing the same server on machine A.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! One FISHWICH coming
at up!!
visi.com
From: John Hasler on 27 Jan 2010 15:36
Stan writes:
> It pretty much makes sense if you understand how X works- in essence
> "clients" request graphics and hence are served by the "server" which
> provides the resources but is of course unfortunate since it is
> backwards!

No it isn't. Are you aware, for example, that each client program can
be on a different computer? (Including the window manager.) The
machines the clients are running on need not have X installed at all:
just the libraries required for the protocol. Thus a single X server
can serve any number of X clients.
--
John Hasler
jhasler(a)newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA
From: Stan Bischof on 27 Jan 2010 15:40
Todd <todd(a)invalid.com> wrote:
>
> So, if I want to run an "X" windows desktop from a Linux
> server on a M$ Windows machine, I run an "X" server on the M$ machine.
> In this respect, I am use to M$ Terminal Services, where the
> requesting machine is called the server and the drawing machine
> is called the client. My brain hurts.
>

Would highly recommend XMing for the X server on your Windows
machine. XMing is small/light and fast, very clean, and runs on
all modern versions of Windows.

NOTE that with RDP one normally gets a full desktop environment.
With X you can get a single application window
( log on via ssh or the like,export the DISPLAY, run the app )
or a full desktop ala RDP ( use xdmcp ). Just depends
upon what you need to do.

Stan

From: Grant Edwards on 27 Jan 2010 15:41
On 2010-01-27, Stan Bischof <stan(a)newserve.worldbadminton.com> wrote:
> Todd <todd(a)invalid.com> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I am confused. When running "X" windows, is the
>> terminology reversed? By chance is the computer
>> hosting the applications called the client and
>> the remote computer viewing the applications called
>> the server? Is so, why is this?
>>
>
> yes- it is backwards
>
> the SERVER is where the display is ( typically your local system )
> the CLIENT is where the bits are running ( typically the server )
>
> It pretty much makes sense if you understand how X works-
> in essence "clients" request graphics and hence are
> served by the "server" which provides the resources
> but is of course unfortunate since it is backwards!

Why do you say it's backwards?

There's a daemon program that runs continuously in the
background. It waits for incoming network connections from a
variety of other transient programs. The daemon then executes
the commands received from those programs and sends back the
requested results.

You think that daemon program should be called the client, and
the "servers" are the programs that connect to the daemon and
send the requests?

What service are those "servers" providing to the daemon
program you want to call the "client"?

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I'm EMOTIONAL
at now because I have
visi.com MERCHANDISING CLOUT!!
From: Stan Bischof on 27 Jan 2010 15:55
Grant Edwards <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2010-01-27, Stan Bischof <stan(a)newserve.worldbadminton.com> wrote:
>> Todd <todd(a)invalid.com> wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I am confused. When running "X" windows, is the
>>> terminology reversed? By chance is the computer
>>> hosting the applications called the client and
>>> the remote computer viewing the applications called
>>> the server? Is so, why is this?
>>>
>>
>> yes- it is backwards
>>
>> the SERVER is where the display is ( typically your local system )
>> the CLIENT is where the bits are running ( typically the server )
>>
>> It pretty much makes sense if you understand how X works-
>> in essence "clients" request graphics and hence are
>> served by the "server" which provides the resources
>> but is of course unfortunate since it is backwards!
>
> Why do you say it's backwards?
>

I don't want to get into semantics, but virtually all
computer users even back in the old Unix workstation
days would tell you that the "client" is what
you are sitting at and the "server" is the big hunk
off in the computer room. X reverses this
paradigm, hence is "backward".

Obviously ( as I attempted to state above ) once
one understands how X works it makes perfect sense.

Anyhow-- OP seems to understand the situation now
so off to bigger and better things.

regards
stan
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