centering an image
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From: Chris F.A. Johnson on 15 Jan 2010 00:26 On 2010-01-15, Gus Richter wrote: .... > Anyone (user or developer) that has used Zoom "for text-only" knows full > well that the whole page is going to break in the majority of cases when > images are used, which is most of the time. That is why Firefox, for > example, added the whole-page zoom feature from previously having only > text-only zoom. Text-only zoom is evil since most pages will break with > it and this evil feature is NOT provided in Opera, Chrome or in IE8. It > may only be available for historical reasons in those browsers that > still have it. There is NO reason to test any page with text-only zoom > if the page contains an image, since the probability of breakage is very > high, therefore, a page breakage due to text-only zoom usage is > inconsequential. Nonsense. A well-coded page will not break apart under text-only zoom. It is text-only zoom that *should* be used for testing, since that approximates how the page will look when viewed by someone whose default font size is different from yours. -- Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfajohnson.com> =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
From: dorayme on 15 Jan 2010 00:29 In article <hiorm5$8pc$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, Gus Richter <gusrichter(a)netscape.net> wrote: > On 1/14/2010 8:40 PM, dorayme wrote: > > ... only saying that it is not a good idea because enough people out > > there have browsers and browsers set not to make this a reliable method. > > Anyone (user or developer) that has used Zoom "for text-only" knows full > well that the whole page is going to break in the majority of cases when > images are used, which is most of the time. I did not know that. I have tried hard, and think I largely succeed, in making my pages behave well a few text size clicks up or down. I have been thinking this is part of the art of website making. > Everyone, (user and developer) should use whole-page zoom for all their > zooming needs. > If a significant number of people do not (because mainly they do not want to see the images degraded as well as taking up too much room) then it looks to me fair for a website maker to respect this and ensure his pages do not break down for them. I do not share your view that they are engaging in some evil practice. .... > Since in my opinion, nobody should use text-only zoom, I therefore do > not use it and had put it out of my mind. I think it is all the more reason to use it when making pages (as opposed to merely using them) and all the more reason not to put it out of mind. -- dorayme
From: Gus Richter on 15 Jan 2010 17:30 On 1/15/2010 12:29 AM, dorayme wrote: > In article<hiorm5$8pc$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, > Gus Richter<gusrichter(a)netscape.net> wrote: > >> On 1/14/2010 8:40 PM, dorayme wrote: > >>> ... only saying that it is not a good idea because enough people out >>> there have browsers and browsers set not to make this a reliable method. >> >> Anyone (user or developer) that has used Zoom "for text-only" knows full >> well that the whole page is going to break in the majority of cases when >> images are used, which is most of the time. > > I did not know that. I have tried hard, and think I largely succeed, in > making my pages behave well a few text size clicks up or down. I have > been thinking this is part of the art of website making. Firefox and Safari have both "Text Zoom" and "Page Zoom". Opera, IE7/8 and Chrome have only "Page Zoom". Chrome used to have Text Zoom but replaced it with Page Zoom. <http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Chrome/thread?tid=2a2a558719548ec6&hl=en> "Text Zoom" and "Page Zoom" both increase or decrease text size. The former doesn't change the image size, whereas the latter changes the image size << along with>> the text size change. The probability of the page breaking with the former is very high, but not so with the latter. With an image remaining the same size and the text size changing, the page will not have the same appearance as intended, causing one type of breakage. Other examples of breakage when using "Text Zoom" can be witnessed at: <http://www.bluecrossmn.com/bc/wcs/groups/bcbsmn/@mbc_bluecrossmn/documents/public/mbc1_home_index.hcsp> and: <http://cpl.org/> Check out also: <http://www.osnews.com/> Which shows problems encountered in this page: Using "Text Zoom" Note how 'Login to OSNews' and 'Forgot Password' start to occupy the same space and note how 'Apple Sends Cease & Desist Letter to Valleywag' and the image start to occupy the same space. Using "Page Zoom" Note how the page starts to enlarge beyond the viewport causing a horizontal scrollbar. Regarding your sample page, use both types of zoom on your page: <http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/alt/imgCentreProposal.html> and it breaks using your preferred method of "Text Zoom", whereas it won't with "Page Zoom". You will note that your page and the two example pages provided immediately before it, have a problem (breakage?) presented when using "Page Zoom" which is manifested by the appearance of an Horizontal Scrollbar after a few size increases. This is what the developer should be checking for and correcting and cannot be checked for with Text Zoom, but can be with Page Zoom. I talk about it further down. >> Everyone, (user and developer) should use whole-page zoom for all their >> zooming needs. >> > > If a significant number of people do not (because mainly they do not > want to see the images degraded as well as taking up too much room) then > it looks to me fair for a website maker to respect this and ensure his > pages do not break down for them. I do not share your view that they are > engaging in some evil practice. I can appreciate the users' possible desires regarding image quality and real estate usage, which can easily be satisfied by restoring the zoom setting to normal when using "Page Zoom". Actually, the recent browsers have incorporated functionality such that the image size increase with Page Zoom has very good quality presently. The best way to maximize available real estate is by restoring the zoom setting to normal when using the "Page Zoom" (or to use Lynx). The developers' interest is in testing for possible "layout" breakage when using text size change. More specifically, the desirable Flexible Layout or Elastic Layout and Liquid Layout should be the goal. Flexible vs. Elastic: <http://dialdfordesign.com/?p=185> <http://jontangerine.com/log/2007/09/the-incredible-em-and-elastic-layouts-with-css> If the page is not properly developed, an undesirable horizontal scrollbar is presented after a few size increases. A proper Flexible Layout Design will eliminate the Horizontal Scrollbar. By using Page Zoom, this can be checked/verified and if not satisfactory, corrected. Not so with Text Zoom. Depending on the design of the page, the flexible layout may break say, only in the masthead section due to a design error. Some of the breakage seen with Text Zoom may also manifest in Page Zoom and indeed be corrected with Flexible Layout technique. When I say "evil" in this context, I meant it as "bad practice" not some kind of conspiracy - simply a metaphor. > ... >> Since in my opinion, nobody should use text-only zoom, I therefore do >> not use it and had put it out of my mind. > > I think it is all the more reason to use it when making pages (as > opposed to merely using them) and all the more reason not to put it out > of mind. You have twisted and turned a simple thing into a deep thinking exercise. I have tried to express my thoughts on this matter as best as I can. Let me say this in ending: I believe that it may be useful to have both "Text Zoom" and "Page Zoom" at hand, although I probably have no use for "Text Zoom" personally. -- Gus
From: Gus Richter on 15 Jan 2010 17:31 On 1/15/2010 12:26 AM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On 2010-01-15, Gus Richter wrote: > ... >> Anyone (user or developer) that has used Zoom "for text-only" knows full >> well that the whole page is going to break in the majority of cases when >> images are used, which is most of the time. That is why Firefox, for >> example, added the whole-page zoom feature from previously having only >> text-only zoom. Text-only zoom is evil since most pages will break with >> it and this evil feature is NOT provided in Opera, Chrome or in IE8. It >> may only be available for historical reasons in those browsers that >> still have it. There is NO reason to test any page with text-only zoom >> if the page contains an image, since the probability of breakage is very >> high, therefore, a page breakage due to text-only zoom usage is >> inconsequential. > > Nonsense. A well-coded page will not break apart under text-only > zoom. > > It is text-only zoom that *should* be used for testing, since that > approximates how the page will look when viewed by someone whose > default font size is different from yours. See my response to dorayme. -- Gus
From: dorayme on 15 Jan 2010 18:05
In article <hiqqb3$g5g$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, Gus Richter <gusrichter(a)netscape.net> wrote: > > ... > >> Since in my opinion, nobody should use text-only zoom, I therefore do > >> not use it and had put it out of my mind. > > > > I think it is all the more reason to use it when making pages (as > > opposed to merely using them) and all the more reason not to put it out > > of mind. > > You have twisted and turned a simple thing into a deep thinking > exercise. I have? You are doing all the twisting and talking, not me. It is bad practice to not cater for those who use text-only zoom. This is not deep thinking! It is the simple truth. -- dorayme |