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From: Gus Richter on 19 Jan 2010 13:17 On 1/16/2010 10:30 PM, jeff wrote: >> Gus Richter wrote: >> >> As I said to Chris: >> Since I fail in making myself clear, or what I say means nothing (to >> you), here is one link that may accomplish wherein I fail: >> <http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2008/10/07/zoom/> > > Seems clear to me, I noted this: > > "So, personal preference aside, I wonder whether designing around > scaling text is still a skill we need to hold on to, and for how long. > I�d be interested in hearing about reasons for and against, as I�m sure > there will be both." > > I was unaware of the shift, but I think it is partially in response to > the fact that wide aspect (16:10 rather than 4:3) high res monitors are > common. Try looking at a common 750px or 1000px fixed width layout at > 1920. Ain't much there! > > http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_display.asp > > "57% higher than 1024". > > For most of us here it is a moot point as we design by default pages > that stand up to some degree of text zoom. I was also unaware of the shift. I test with Firefox and then with the others. Firefox's zoom used to be "Text Zoom" and I used Ctrl++ etc. frequently to test for breakage for different text size usage by users. Somewhere along the line Firefox included "Page Zoom" and changed the *default* to Page Zoom. I didn't pay any attention to the fact that the *default* for Ctrl++ etc. brought up Page Zoom instead of Text Zoom. I should have, but didn't - my bad. Because of this I made some bad assumptions regarding Text Zoom vs. Page Zoom. Because of this thread I've done a little reading and testing and have revised my conclusions somewhat. The article (mezzoblue above) is over a year old, so the points brought up should be much more relevant today. 1. Browsers have switched from Text Zoom to Page Zoom. 2. Most browsers do not have Text Zoom (at least not easily for users). 3. Those that have retained Text Zoom have made Page Zoom the *default*. 4. Most users will use what is provided as the *default* - Page Zoom. 5. Page Zoom attempts to accurately render the page as it was designed. 6. Text Zoom reflows the text, often causing serious layout problems. 7. The question is (actually posed over a year ago) whether designing around scaling text is worth worrying about. The implication is that it already is, or will shortly be, something pass�. I take comfort, away from my guilt feeling due to my inattention as mentioned in my first paragraph, by agreeing with your last paragraph and item 7 immediately above. although 'it don't hurt to check with Text Zoom and correct if necessary anyway' - at least until Firefox gets rid of Text Zoom just as Chrome did. -- Gus
From: Jonathan N. Little on 19 Jan 2010 13:54 Gus Richter wrote: > 7. The question is (actually posed over a year ago) whether designing > around scaling text is worth worrying about. The implication is that it > already is, or will shortly be, something pass�. > > I take comfort, away from my guilt feeling due to my inattention as > mentioned in my first paragraph, by agreeing with your last paragraph > and item 7 immediately above. although 'it don't hurt to check with Text > Zoom and correct if necessary anyway' - at least until Firefox gets rid > of Text Zoom just as Chrome did. > So you will just ignore default text size? You do realize if the user sets a larger default text size that it has the same effect on your layout as text-zoom. -- Take care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
From: Gus Richter on 19 Jan 2010 19:32 On 1/19/2010 1:54 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote: > Gus Richter wrote: > >> 7. The question is (actually posed over a year ago) whether designing >> around scaling text is worth worrying about. The implication is that it >> already is, or will shortly be, something pass�. >> >> I take comfort, away from my guilt feeling due to my inattention as >> mentioned in my first paragraph, by agreeing with your last paragraph >> and item 7 immediately above. although 'it don't hurt to check with Text >> Zoom and correct if necessary anyway' - at least until Firefox gets rid >> of Text Zoom just as Chrome did. >> > > So you will just ignore default text size? You do realize if the user > sets a larger default text size that it has the same effect on your > layout as text-zoom. > No, not ignore, but give it less importance. Since less people are and less and less will be using Text Zoom (due to points 1. through 4.). I also agree with 7. but as I ended, "it don't hurt to check with Text Zoom and correct if necessary anyway" - at least until Firefox gets rid of Text Zoom just as Chrome did. -- Gus
From: Jonathan N. Little on 19 Jan 2010 21:33 Gus Richter wrote: > On 1/19/2010 1:54 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote: >> Gus Richter wrote: >> >>> 7. The question is (actually posed over a year ago) whether designing >>> around scaling text is worth worrying about. The implication is that it >>> already is, or will shortly be, something pass�. >>> >>> I take comfort, away from my guilt feeling due to my inattention as >>> mentioned in my first paragraph, by agreeing with your last paragraph >>> and item 7 immediately above. although 'it don't hurt to check with Text >>> Zoom and correct if necessary anyway' - at least until Firefox gets rid >>> of Text Zoom just as Chrome did. >>> >> >> So you will just ignore default text size? You do realize if the user >> sets a larger default text size that it has the same effect on your >> layout as text-zoom. >> > No, not ignore, but give it less importance. Since less people are and > less and less will be using Text Zoom (due to points 1. through 4.). Why, are people going to stop setting their default font size as well? And the OS font settings also? All these settings will in effect change the page layout the same way as Text Zoom. > I also agree with 7. but as I ended, "it don't hurt to check with Text > Zoom and correct if necessary anyway" - at least until Firefox gets rid > of Text Zoom just as Chrome did. > I don't agree with your conclusion that 7 is valid. Opera and Chrome may only have Page Zoom but FireFox and IE still have Text Zoom. Even IE will let you put the item on the toolbar... -- Take care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
From: Gus Richter on 20 Jan 2010 21:30
On 1/19/2010 9:33 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote: > Gus Richter wrote: >> On 1/19/2010 1:54 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote: >>> Gus Richter wrote: >>> >>>> 7. The question is (actually posed over a year ago) whether designing >>>> around scaling text is worth worrying about. The implication is that it >>>> already is, or will shortly be, something pass�. >>>> >>>> I take comfort, away from my guilt feeling due to my inattention as >>>> mentioned in my first paragraph, by agreeing with your last paragraph >>>> and item 7 immediately above. although 'it don't hurt to check with >>>> Text >>>> Zoom and correct if necessary anyway' - at least until Firefox gets rid >>>> of Text Zoom just as Chrome did. >>>> >>> >>> So you will just ignore default text size? You do realize if the user >>> sets a larger default text size that it has the same effect on your >>> layout as text-zoom. >>> >> No, not ignore, but give it less importance. Since less people are and >> less and less will be using Text Zoom (due to points 1. through 4.). > > Why, are people going to stop setting their default font size as well? > And the OS font settings also? All these settings will in effect change > the page layout the same way as Text Zoom. > >> I also agree with 7. but as I ended, "it don't hurt to check with Text >> Zoom and correct if necessary anyway" - at least until Firefox gets rid >> of Text Zoom just as Chrome did. >> > > I don't agree with your conclusion that 7 is valid. Opera and Chrome may > only have Page Zoom but FireFox and IE still have Text Zoom. Even IE > will let you put the item on the toolbar... I believe that "designing around scaling text" encompasses any method of scaling text. As I said, it won't hurt to make the checks. It remains to be seen if people will use Page Zoom instead of any form of Text Scaling. -- Gus |