curvature of spacetime
in [Relativity]
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From: kolt on 10 Mar 2006 03:53 Around the proton and the electron is a force. Can we not suppose that there is an outward and an inward curvature to account for the positive and negative electric forces? However, the opposing curvatures within the atom would cancel each other out resulting in a net curvature of zero. Such a view totally disregards the roll the electric forces may have in the force of gravity since positive plus an equal amount of negative is zero. What I mean is that I think Positive plus negative might equal gravity.
From: Tom Roberts on 10 Mar 2006 09:59 kolt wrote: > Around the proton and the electron is a force. Can we not suppose that > there is an outward and an inward curvature to account for the positive > and negative electric forces? Attempts have been made to describe electromagnetic forces in geometrical terms. The results are either not satisfactory or are considerably more complicated (involving a fiber bundle). > However, the opposing curvatures within > the atom would cancel each other out resulting in a net curvature of > zero. In the gauge theory of electrodynamics, in which the EM field is modeled as a fiber bundle over spacetime, the curvature of the bundle is the Lagrangian of the theory; the bundle connection becomes the EM force, etc. There is no "cancellation" as you suppose. Note that having "separate curvatures" as you suggest is inconsistent with a geometrical description, as curvature is a property of the manifold, not particles. > What I mean is that I think Positive plus negative > might equal gravity. Electrodynamics is so very much different from gravitation that nobody has ever presented a realistic theory in which gravity is a "remnant" of EM. Tom Roberts tjroberts(a)lucent.com
From: Sue... on 10 Mar 2006 11:00 Tom Roberts wrote: > kolt wrote: > > Around the proton and the electron is a force. Can we not suppose that > > there is an outward and an inward curvature to account for the positive > > and negative electric forces? > > Attempts have been made to describe electromagnetic forces in > geometrical terms. The results are either not satisfactory or are > considerably more complicated (involving a fiber bundle). > > > > However, the opposing curvatures within > > the atom would cancel each other out resulting in a net curvature of > > zero. > > In the gauge theory of electrodynamics, in which the EM field is modeled > as a fiber bundle over spacetime, the curvature of the bundle is the > Lagrangian of the theory; the bundle connection becomes the EM force, > etc. There is no "cancellation" as you suppose. Note that having > "separate curvatures" as you suggest is inconsistent with a geometrical > description, as curvature is a property of the manifold, not particles. > > > > What I mean is that I think Positive plus negative > > might equal gravity. > > Electrodynamics is so very much different from gravitation that nobody > has ever presented a realistic theory in which gravity is a "remnant" of EM. Gee whiz. Do you think they might be getting close to figuring out how the magnetic force works ? << A known method to deal with long-range forces is that of Ewald sums. Briefly, and assuming we are dealing with charged ions, one assumes that each ion is surrounded by a spherically symmetric charge distribution of opposite sign which neutralizes the ion. This distribution is localized, that is, it is contained within a cutoff distance. This effectively screens ion-ion interactions, which are then treated with conventional short-range techniques. To restore the original system, one then considers the Coulomb interaction of similar charge distributions centered on the ions, but now with the same sign as the original ions. These distributions exactly cancel those that we have considered before, so that the total interactions that we shall obtain will be those of the original system made of point charges only. The interaction of the cancelling distributions is computed in reciprocal space. The required Fourier transforms are particularly simple when the (arbitrary) shape of the distributions is chosen to be a gaussian. >> http://www.ud.infn.it/~ercolessi/md/md/node52.html <<Here are examples of other physical problems that MD-GRAPE can accelerate : Molecular Dynamics : it calculates any forces specified by the user, but existing libraries handle the Coulomb and van der Waals forces, and in addition to all of the real-space operations involved with the Ewald method. Plasma Physics (charged particle interactions) Self-gravitating systems, including cosmology, galaxies, and planets Hydrodynamics (using Smoothed Particle Hydrodynamics or the particle-vortex method) And any other problem involving interparticle forces...>> http://www.research.ibm.com/grape/index.html#why Sue... > > > Tom Roberts tjroberts(a)lucent.com
From: G=EMC^2 Glazier on 10 Mar 2006 16:08 kolt I have a concave and convex curvature of space. My theory is used for gravity attraction(concave) and universe repulsion(convex),in the the macro realm. Have no idea how it would work in the micro realm,because convex I added to Einstien's GR,and GR does not fit in the micro universe Trebert
From: Ken S. Tucker on 10 Mar 2006 17:30
Tom, your post has serious issues. Please see Dover's "...Relativity" pg 156 , Eq,(66) aka AE's GR1916 Eq.(66) and see how the energy density is defined entirely by the EM field tensor, where the "energy density" determines the curvature and so on to the metrics. That in my mind, compells a metric related to the EM field tensor and permits the assumption that "mass" itself is appropriately defined to have an electromagnetic origin, eliminating the necessity of adding an ambiguous generic quantity "m" by hand into the metric. I've personally solved that for the metric and it looks quite reasonable. BTW, EM was unknown when Newton formulated his universal law of gravitation. Regards Ken S. Tucker PS: oops almost forgot <SHrUg>. Tom Roberts wrote: > kolt wrote: > > Around the proton and the electron is a force. Can we not suppose that > > there is an outward and an inward curvature to account for the positive > > and negative electric forces? > > Attempts have been made to describe electromagnetic forces in > geometrical terms. The results are either not satisfactory or are > considerably more complicated (involving a fiber bundle). > > > > However, the opposing curvatures within > > the atom would cancel each other out resulting in a net curvature of > > zero. > > In the gauge theory of electrodynamics, in which the EM field is modeled > as a fiber bundle over spacetime, the curvature of the bundle is the > Lagrangian of the theory; the bundle connection becomes the EM force, > etc. There is no "cancellation" as you suppose. Note that having > "separate curvatures" as you suggest is inconsistent with a geometrical > description, as curvature is a property of the manifold, not particles. > > > > What I mean is that I think Positive plus negative > > might equal gravity. > > Electrodynamics is so very much different from gravitation that nobody > has ever presented a realistic theory in which gravity is a "remnant" of EM. > > > Tom Roberts tjroberts(a)lucent.com |