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From: Keld Simonsen on 28 May 2010 20:33
Hi

I am running majordomo with postfix for a number of email list, and I
have some trouble tracking down bounces. I thought that if I could have some
customized Received: headers with the envelope receiver logged
eg by "for <user>" then I would be able to track some mutating adressees.
Seems like some postfixes do that, but mine does not.
I could not find something on it in the documentation or via google.

is there a way to customize the "received:" header?

Are there other best practices for tracking down bounces for majordomo
with postfix? Maybe having separate message ids per individual recepient?

best regards
keld

From: Wietse Venema on 28 May 2010 20:52
Keld Simonsen:
> Hi
>
> I am running majordomo with postfix for a number of email list, and I
> have some trouble tracking down bounces. I thought that if I could have some
> customized Received: headers with the envelope receiver logged
> eg by "for <user>" then I would be able to track some mutating adressees.
> Seems like some postfixes do that, but mine does not.
> I could not find something on it in the documentation or via google.

Postfix logs "Received..for <recipient>" only if there is exactly
one recipient. Otherwise there would be a privacy violation of
BCC recipients, including the addresses of mailing list members.

> is there a way to customize the "received:" header?

That would be a mistake with multi-recipient mail.

> Are there other best practices for tracking down bounces for majordomo
> with postfix? Maybe having separate message ids per individual recepient?

It's trivial with MTAs that implement standardized RFC 3462 style
delivery status notifications. That's Postfix, Sendmail, and many
other systems.

With non-standard MTAs such as exim and qmail, it takes a bit of
creative scripting.

Another approach is to use VERP which sends one message per
recipient and encodes the recipent in the bounce address.

See http://www.postfix.org/VERP_README.html

Wietse

From: Keld Simonsen on 21 Jun 2010 21:17
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 08:52:04PM -0400, Wietse Venema wrote:
> Keld Simonsen:
> > Hi
> >
> > I am running majordomo with postfix for a number of email list, and I
> > have some trouble tracking down bounces. I thought that if I could have some
> > customized Received: headers with the envelope receiver logged
> > eg by "for <user>" then I would be able to track some mutating adressees.
> > Seems like some postfixes do that, but mine does not.
> > I could not find something on it in the documentation or via google.
>
> Postfix logs "Received..for <recipient>" only if there is exactly
> one recipient. Otherwise there would be a privacy violation of
> BCC recipients, including the addresses of mailing list members.
>
> > is there a way to customize the "received:" header?
>
> That would be a mistake with multi-recipient mail.
>
> > Are there other best practices for tracking down bounces for majordomo
> > with postfix? Maybe having separate message ids per individual recepient?
>
> It's trivial with MTAs that implement standardized RFC 3462 style
> delivery status notifications. That's Postfix, Sendmail, and many
> other systems.
>
> With non-standard MTAs such as exim and qmail, it takes a bit of
> creative scripting.
>
> Another approach is to use VERP which sends one message per
> recipient and encodes the recipent in the bounce address.
>
> See http://www.postfix.org/VERP_README.html

I am trying the VERP way, and have a little difficulty to understand what to do.

I understand that there are two phases in the setup:

1. have sendmail generate an extended reply address,
with the recipient added to the reply address, after a delimiter,
which by default is "+" . the recepient address is added with the
'@' replaced with '0'. this is activated by adding the -XV option
to sendmail (using default values). Default values cover the rest.

2. when mail bounces, then have postfix forward the reply address
owner+recepient=domain.tld(a)site.tld to owner(a)site.tld .
this is activated in main.cf by the line
recipient_delimiter = +
and then the rest is done by default.

My question is where do I set up the -XV option to sendmail.
I sometimes just use an include in the alias file for a bigger list, and sometimes I use
majordomo.

For majordomo I am using wrapper in the alias file. majordomo has a number of instances
in diverse files in /home/majordomo that either invoke /usr/sbin/sendmail or /usr/lib/sendmail
Where to add -XV ?

For the non-majordomo lists - where do I invoke sendmail -XV ?

best regards
keld

From: Wietse Venema on 22 Jun 2010 07:34
Keld Simonsen:
[ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ]
> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 08:52:04PM -0400, Wietse Venema wrote:
> > Keld Simonsen:
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > I am running majordomo with postfix for a number of email list, and I
> > > have some trouble tracking down bounces. I thought that if I could have some
> > > customized Received: headers with the envelope receiver logged
> > > eg by "for <user>" then I would be able to track some mutating adressees.
> > > Seems like some postfixes do that, but mine does not.
> > > I could not find something on it in the documentation or via google.
> >
> > Postfix logs "Received..for <recipient>" only if there is exactly
> > one recipient. Otherwise there would be a privacy violation of
> > BCC recipients, including the addresses of mailing list members.
> >
> > > is there a way to customize the "received:" header?
> >
> > That would be a mistake with multi-recipient mail.
> >
> > > Are there other best practices for tracking down bounces for majordomo
> > > with postfix? Maybe having separate message ids per individual recepient?
> >
> > It's trivial with MTAs that implement standardized RFC 3462 style
> > delivery status notifications. That's Postfix, Sendmail, and many
> > other systems.
> >
> > With non-standard MTAs such as exim and qmail, it takes a bit of
> > creative scripting.
> >
> > Another approach is to use VERP which sends one message per
> > recipient and encodes the recipent in the bounce address.
> >
> > See http://www.postfix.org/VERP_README.html
>
> I am trying the VERP way, and have a little difficulty to understand what to do.
>
> I understand that there are two phases in the setup:
>
> 1. have sendmail generate an extended reply address,
> with the recipient added to the reply address, after a delimiter,
> which by default is "+" . the recepient address is added with the

Where does VERP_README say that SENDMAIL must generate a
specially-formatted sender address?

Wietse

From: Keld Simonsen on 22 Jun 2010 07:51
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 07:34:17AM -0400, Wietse Venema wrote:
> Keld Simonsen:
> [ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ]
> > On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 08:52:04PM -0400, Wietse Venema wrote:
> > > Keld Simonsen:
> > > > Hi
> > > >
> > > > I am running majordomo with postfix for a number of email list, and I
> > > > have some trouble tracking down bounces. I thought that if I could have some
> > > > customized Received: headers with the envelope receiver logged
> > > > eg by "for <user>" then I would be able to track some mutating adressees.
> > > > Seems like some postfixes do that, but mine does not.
> > > > I could not find something on it in the documentation or via google.
> > >
> > > Postfix logs "Received..for <recipient>" only if there is exactly
> > > one recipient. Otherwise there would be a privacy violation of
> > > BCC recipients, including the addresses of mailing list members.
> > >
> > > > is there a way to customize the "received:" header?
> > >
> > > That would be a mistake with multi-recipient mail.
> > >
> > > > Are there other best practices for tracking down bounces for majordomo
> > > > with postfix? Maybe having separate message ids per individual recepient?
> > >
> > > It's trivial with MTAs that implement standardized RFC 3462 style
> > > delivery status notifications. That's Postfix, Sendmail, and many
> > > other systems.
> > >
> > > With non-standard MTAs such as exim and qmail, it takes a bit of
> > > creative scripting.
> > >
> > > Another approach is to use VERP which sends one message per
> > > recipient and encodes the recipent in the bounce address.
> > >
> > > See http://www.postfix.org/VERP_README.html
> >
> > I am trying the VERP way, and have a little difficulty to understand what to do.
> >
> > I understand that there are two phases in the setup:
> >
> > 1. have sendmail generate an extended reply address,
> > with the recipient added to the reply address, after a delimiter,
> > which by default is "+" . the recepient address is added with the
>
> Where does VERP_README say that SENDMAIL must generate a
> specially-formatted sender address?

I don't know. It was just my understanding that this was the way it worked.
Or: that the bounce address was specifically generated per message - and that the
"-XV" option to sendmail was the mechanism for triggering this behaviour.

The VERP_README says:

> In order to make VERP useful with majordomo etc. mailing lists, you would configure the list manager to submit mail according to one of the following two forms:
>
> Postfix 2.3 and later:
>
> % sendmail -XV -f owner-listname other-arguments...


Can I use VERP without specifically generated bounce addresses? How do I then identify
the problem adressee - which possibly has a mutated address?

Best regards
keld

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