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From: Tom Lane on 27 Jul 2010 16:09
Robert Haas <robertmhaas(a)gmail.com> writes:
> Well, that's pretty much saying we won't release before September.

Yup, that's what I think. In fact I think September might be
optimistic. This is what happens when you fork early and allow
developers to start focusing on new development instead of testing
the release branch.

> Which is kind of a bummer, but I guess that's what happens when we get
> into vacation season.

Yes. If we were at full strength maybe August would be make-able, but
there are too many people on vacation right now, and way too many
distractions to boot.

In any case, now that 9.0 is branched there is not any
project-scheduling reason why the final release needs to happen any
particular time. I think we need to fall back on our traditional mantra
"we'll release it when it's ready" rather than fret about whether it's
August or September or whatever.

regards, tom lane

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From: Robert Haas on 27 Jul 2010 16:48
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Tom Lane <tgl(a)sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> Robert Haas <robertmhaas(a)gmail.com> writes:
>> Well, that's pretty much saying we won't release before September.
>
> Yup, that's what I think. �In fact I think September might be
> optimistic. �This is what happens when you fork early and allow
> developers to start focusing on new development instead of testing
> the release branch.

I call bullshit. The six items in the "code" section of the open
items list were reported 14, 5, 5, 1, 27, and 0 days ago. The 27-day
old item is purely cosmetic and there's absolutely zero evidence that
Simon hasn't done it yet because he's been busy working on 9.1
development. It's much more likely that he hasn't gotten around to
taking care of that (and his outstanding 9.1 patch) because he's been
busy with everything else in his life other than pgsql-hackers. The
remaining items have an average age of precisely 5 days, which hardly
sounds like we've been sitting on our hands, especially when you
consider that both you and Heikki have been on vacation for longer
than that. And it's not as if I haven't been following those issues,
either. Had you and Heikki and Peter fallen down a well more or less
permanently, I would have patched about half of those bugs by now.
The fact that I haven't done so is not because I'm busy working on 9.1
development, but because I respect your expertise and wish to have the
benefit of it so as to reduce the chances that I will break things,
or, for that matter, fix them in a way that's adequate but not the one
you happen to prefer.

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Robert Haas
EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise Postgres Company

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From: Robert Haas on 27 Jul 2010 17:46
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Robert Haas <robertmhaas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Tom Lane <tgl(a)sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
>> Robert Haas <robertmhaas(a)gmail.com> writes:
>>> Well, that's pretty much saying we won't release before September.
>>
>> Yup, that's what I think. �In fact I think September might be
>> optimistic. �This is what happens when you fork early and allow
>> developers to start focusing on new development instead of testing
>> the release branch.
>
> [poorly worded protest]

Sorry - I apologize for that email. As has been pointed out to me
off-list, that was too strongly worded and not constructive. Still, I
don't think there is much evidence for the proposition that the
current delays are caused by having branched early. I think they're
caused by people being out of town.

--
Robert Haas
EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise Postgres Company

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From: Tom Lane on 27 Jul 2010 18:42
Robert Haas <robertmhaas(a)gmail.com> writes:
> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Robert Haas <robertmhaas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Tom Lane <tgl(a)sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
>>> Yup, that's what I think. �In fact I think September might be
>>> optimistic. �This is what happens when you fork early and allow
>>> developers to start focusing on new development instead of testing
>>> the release branch.

>> [poorly worded protest]

> Sorry - I apologize for that email. As has been pointed out to me
> off-list, that was too strongly worded and not constructive. Still, I
> don't think there is much evidence for the proposition that the
> current delays are caused by having branched early. I think they're
> caused by people being out of town.

Well, they're surely both contributing factors. There's no way to run a
controlled experiment to determine how much each one is hurting us, so
opinions about which is worse can never be more than opinions. I'm
sticking with mine though, and for weak evidence will point to the
amount of -hackers traffic about 9.1 CF items versus the amount of
traffic about how to fix the known bugs.

Anyway, I'm back from vacation and will start looking at those bugs as
soon as I've caught up on email.

regards, tom lane

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From: Robert Haas on 27 Jul 2010 19:01
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 6:42 PM, Tom Lane <tgl(a)sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> Robert Haas <robertmhaas(a)gmail.com> writes:
>> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Robert Haas <robertmhaas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Tom Lane <tgl(a)sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
>>>> Yup, that's what I think. �In fact I think September might be
>>>> optimistic. �This is what happens when you fork early and allow
>>>> developers to start focusing on new development instead of testing
>>>> the release branch.
>
>>> [poorly worded protest]
>
>> Sorry - I apologize for that email. �As has been pointed out to me
>> off-list, that was too strongly worded and not constructive. �Still, I
>> don't think there is much evidence for the proposition that the
>> current delays are caused by having branched early. �I think they're
>> caused by people being out of town.
>
> Well, they're surely both contributing factors. �There's no way to run a
> controlled experiment to determine how much each one is hurting us, so
> opinions about which is worse can never be more than opinions. �I'm
> sticking with mine though, and for weak evidence will point to the
> amount of -hackers traffic about 9.1 CF items versus the amount of
> traffic about how to fix the known bugs.

I guess I'd counter by pointing out that there are half a dozen bugs
and almost 70 patches in the CommitFest. And, again, it's not as if
bugs are sitting there being ignored for months on end. To the
contrary, we've been largely ignoring new patches for the past five
months, but we rarely ignore bugs. When 2 or 3 days go by without a
response to a serious bug report, people start posting messages like
"Hello? Hello? What's going on?" (there are several examples of this
in just the last week, from at least two different contributors).

> Anyway, I'm back from vacation and will start looking at those bugs as
> soon as I've caught up on email.

Thanks. Let me know if I'm not picking up something you think I
should be looking at. I've been attempting to stay on top of both bug
reports and the CommitFest in your absence, which has been keeping me
extremely busy, which may account for some portion of the testiness of
my previous response.

--
Robert Haas
EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise Postgres Company

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