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From: Lew on 22 Jan 2010 22:58
Roedy Green wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:19:09 -0500, Lew <noone(a)lewscanon.com> wrote,
> quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>
>> Lothar wasn't explicit, but Arne didn't say it was Lothar. Daniel was
>> explicit, in the post to which Lothar responded.
>
> This reminds me of the standard response I get when I write to an
> author words to this effect.
>
> On page 99 of your manual, you say "xxxx". This could be interpreted
> to mean either "yyyy" or "zzzz". I suggest rewording it as "aaaaa" to
> make it clear that you meant "zzzz".
>
> They respond I meant "zzzz". This is perfectly clear to any
> (German-speaking) person. If you, as a rank novice, have further
> trouble understanding my program, please don't hesitate to ask.

That is completely dissimilar. That example is the authors trying to duck
responsibility. This thread has people who read the same thing you did, like
you without benefit of reading the authors' minds, and yet still understood
it. In other words, people in your exact same position who saw the obvious.

--
Lew
From: Arne Vajhøj on 23 Jan 2010 15:33
On 22-01-2010 22:55, Roedy Green wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:19:09 -0500, Lew<noone(a)lewscanon.com> wrote,
> quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>> Lothar wasn't explicit, but Arne didn't say it was Lothar. Daniel was
>> explicit, in the post to which Lothar responded.
>
> This reminds me of the standard response I get when I write to an
> author words to this effect.
>
> On page 99 of your manual, you say "xxxx". This could be interpreted
> to mean either "yyyy" or "zzzz". I suggest rewording it as "aaaaa" to
> make it clear that you meant "zzzz".
>
> They respond I meant "zzzz". This is perfectly clear to any
> (German-speaking) person. If you, as a rank novice, have further
> trouble understanding my program, please don't hesitate to ask.

You replied to a post with the content:

#Daniel Pitts wrote:
#> I often find the standard HttpUrlConnection lacking, and usually go with
#> apache commons HttpClient instead. You have more control of the
#> process, if you care, but it also "works" out-of-the-box if you don't
#> want to configure it as much.
#The last time I checked, GetMethod and PostMethod were two
#classes sharing a lot of methods but not a common superclass.

with a question:

#Are you complaining about Sun or Apache?

Are you saying that it requires readers to be german speaking
to figure out that "apache commons HttpClient" is Apache and
not SUN ????

Arne


From: Lothar Kimmeringer on 25 Jan 2010 06:57
Arne Vajh�j wrote:

> The API is simpler than (Http)URLConnection, so even if
> you don't need all the features, then it can be beneficial
> to use.

Personally I don't see much difference in complexity. The
advantage of HttpClient is the better support for Cookies
and the handling of HTTP-sessions. But if you just want to
perform a single HTTP-request (GET or POST) you more or less
end up with the same code.

The advantage of using HttpUrlConnection is that there are
a lot more examples covering topics like accessing HTTPS-
servers that use "untrusted" certficates or requiring a
client-certificate. As soon as you have this topic handling
XML-files that need to load DTDs/XSDs that way you have to
cope with HttpUrlConnection-APIs anyway, even when using
Apache-classes doing the XML-parsing.

The decistion pro HttpUrlConnection and contra HttpClient I
finally made more than five years ago. Things might have
changed for HttpClient since then (and most likely the API
to be used, requiring significant changes in the code), but
my code works (and is officially certified), so I most likely
will not change it.


Regards, Lothar
--
Lothar Kimmeringer E-Mail: spamfang(a)kimmeringer.de
PGP-encrypted mails preferred (Key-ID: 0x8BC3CD81)

Always remember: The answer is forty-two, there can only be wrong
questions!
From: Roedy Green on 25 Jan 2010 17:39
On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 15:33:35 -0500, Arne Vajh�j <arne(a)vajhoej.dk>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>#Are you complaining about Sun or Apache?
>
>Are you saying that it requires readers to be german speaking
>to figure out that "apache commons HttpClient" is Apache and
>not SUN ????

It is possible nearly always to research questions for oneself. I am
more familiar with this stuff than most people since I have published
code that uses the various Sun classes and written an essay on it. I
am just asking the author to clarify himself as a courtesy to readers
for whom the answer to that question is not obvious.

Think of this as like a Q&A session in front of a mixed audience. It
is common for people in the audience to ask questions on BEHALF of the
newbies in the audience. To the lecturer, all of it is so TOTALLY
obvious, it is hard to put himself in the shoes of the newbie.

Must you make such an issue of every triviality.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
Don�t be discouraged by a failure. It can be a positive experience. Failure is, in a sense, the highway to success, inasmuch as every discovery of what is false leads us to seek earnestly after what is true, and every fresh experience points out some form of error which we shall afterwards carefully avoid.
~ John Keats (born: 1795-10-31 died: 1821-02-23 at age: 25)
From: Arne Vajhøj on 25 Jan 2010 20:27
On 25-01-2010 17:39, Roedy Green wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 15:33:35 -0500, Arne Vajh�j<arne(a)vajhoej.dk>
> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
[start restore context]
>>You replied to a post with the content:
>>
>>#Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>#> I often find the standard HttpUrlConnection lacking, and usually go with
>>#> apache commons HttpClient instead. You have more control of the
>>#> process, if you care, but it also "works" out-of-the-box if you don't
>>#> want to configure it as much.
>>#The last time I checked, GetMethod and PostMethod were two
>>#classes sharing a lot of methods but not a common superclass.
>>
>>with a question:
>>
[end restore context]
>> #Are you complaining about Sun or Apache?
>>
>> Are you saying that it requires readers to be german speaking
>> to figure out that "apache commons HttpClient" is Apache and
>> not SUN ????
>
> It is possible nearly always to research questions for oneself. I am
> more familiar with this stuff than most people since I have published
> code that uses the various Sun classes and written an essay on it. I
> am just asking the author to clarify himself as a courtesy to readers
> for whom the answer to that question is not obvious.

I think all readers here are perfectly capable
of reading "apache commons HttpClient" and figuring
out that it must be Apache without your intended helpful
questions.

Arne
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