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From: banni on 21 Apr 2010 01:57 what we need to get unix solaris system admin job
From: Richard B. Gilbert on 21 Apr 2010 23:51 Cydrome Leader wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88(a)comcast.net> wrote: >> Michael Laajanen wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >>>> banni wrote: >>>>> what we need to get unix solaris system admin job >>>> 1. Experience! >>>> 2. To get a job in an English speaking country or organization, better >>>> English. It is clear from what you wrote that, if your native >>>> language is English, you are poorly educated! I am assuming that you >>>> are well educated and that English is, for you, a second language. >>>> >>>> I am not criticizing! Your English is far better than my Spanish, >>>> German, Japanese, or Turkish! I can order a beer in all four of those >>>> languages and that is the extent of my linguistic abilities! >>>> >>>> You can gain some of the necessary experience by obtaining a copy of >>>> Solaris, SPARC, X86, or both and installing Solaris. Add some users. >>>> Limit the amount of disk space available to the users. Install some >>>> patches. Create a print queue and make it work. >>> Even I can do that, and I am only a part time sysadm far from thinking >>> of applying for any sysadm job :) >>> >>> I think if one ask what it takes to get a specific job then that person >>> does not have it! >>> >> Perhaps you're right. If so, Solaris or any other O/S can be learned. >> >> I took a five day course in Solaris System Administration, paid for by >> my employer. >> >> The slower and cheaper method is to purchase a used Sun Workstation and >> a copy of Solaris. An Ultra 10 workstation is quite affordable. Or, if >> you want to learn the X86 version, find as used PC. Install the O/S. >> Configure networking. Add some user accounts. Install a printer and >> create a print queue. Print something. Figure out how to back up your >> disk and do it! Download copies of the Doc Set. RTFM >> >> If you can do all that, you've got the basics. > > It still takes years and years plus the basics to be able to do more good > than harm. Can you back up that statement with some facts and examples? I started with several years experience with using O/S 360. I got "Introduction to Unix" (five days) and "Unix System Administration" (five days). The company bought the system, the vendor installed it and I was off and running. This was back in the days when most people had never *seen* a computer!
From: Richard B. Gilbert on 22 Apr 2010 20:48 Michael Vilain wrote: > In article <IfqdnVSWDMiJO03WnZ2dnUVZ_hednZ2d(a)giganews.com>, > "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88(a)comcast.net> wrote: > >> Michael Vilain wrote: >>> In article <O5KdnUL6Hc8uWlLWnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d(a)giganews.com>, >>> "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88(a)comcast.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Cydrome Leader wrote: >>>>> Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88(a)comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>> Michael Laajanen wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >>>>>>>> banni wrote: >>>>>>>>> what we need to get unix solaris system admin job >>>>>>>> 1. Experience! >>>>>>>> 2. To get a job in an English speaking country or organization, better >>>>>>>> English. It is clear from what you wrote that, if your native >>>>>>>> language is English, you are poorly educated! I am assuming that you >>>>>>>> are well educated and that English is, for you, a second language. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am not criticizing! Your English is far better than my Spanish, >>>>>>>> German, Japanese, or Turkish! I can order a beer in all four of those >>>>>>>> languages and that is the extent of my linguistic abilities! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You can gain some of the necessary experience by obtaining a copy of >>>>>>>> Solaris, SPARC, X86, or both and installing Solaris. Add some users. >>>>>>>> Limit the amount of disk space available to the users. Install some >>>>>>>> patches. Create a print queue and make it work. >>>>>>> Even I can do that, and I am only a part time sysadm far from thinking >>>>>>> of applying for any sysadm job :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think if one ask what it takes to get a specific job then that person >>>>>>> does not have it! >>>>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps you're right. If so, Solaris or any other O/S can be learned. >>>>>> >>>>>> I took a five day course in Solaris System Administration, paid for by >>>>>> my employer. >>>>>> >>>>>> The slower and cheaper method is to purchase a used Sun Workstation and >>>>>> a copy of Solaris. An Ultra 10 workstation is quite affordable. Or, if >>>>>> you want to learn the X86 version, find as used PC. Install the O/S. >>>>>> Configure networking. Add some user accounts. Install a printer and >>>>>> create a print queue. Print something. Figure out how to back up your >>>>>> disk and do it! Download copies of the Doc Set. RTFM >>>>>> >>>>>> If you can do all that, you've got the basics. >>>>> It still takes years and years plus the basics to be able to do more good >>>>> than harm. >>>> Can you back up that statement with some facts and examples? >>>> >>>> I started with several years experience with using O/S 360. I got >>>> "Introduction to Unix" (five days) and "Unix System Administration" >>>> (five days). The company bought the system, the vendor installed it and >>>> I was off and running. This was back in the days when most people had >>>> never *seen* a computer! >>> I had 15 years as a PDP-11 and VMS systems programmer and stumbled into >>> system management. It didn't take very long to shift to Solaris >>> sysadmin (1 week class plus 1 week actual hands on). Most programmers >>> these days have no clue about what it takes to plan and manage more than >>> the machine on their desk. Nor do they usually care. "I have root. I >>> don't care about other systems, except maybe the printer outside my >>> cube." A good admin keeps a global view of the entire company's major >>> systems, how they're backed up and restored, what's running on them, and >>> who's using them. You can't really learn those bits by managing a >>> Solaris desktop. >>> >> I think that "a global view of the entire company's major systems is a >> little bit ambitions. I knew their names and IP addresses but had no >> responsibility for any systems not located at my site. For most of them >> I didn't even have a login! I couldn't have told you what most of those >> systems did. >> >> ISTR that the company had seven different hardware platforms and was >> running nine or ten different operating systems. The parent company was >> NEBS, since acquired by Deluxe. NEBS had grown by acquisition. The >> subsidiary that I worked for was, itself, an amalgam of twenty-four >> different companies at the time it was acquired by NEBS. >> >> The whole mess was acquired by Deluxe (the check printing Deluxe). I >> think that Deluxe may have since been acquired or merged. . . . >> Deluxe had it's own systems, software. . . . ISTR that Deluxe used >> Netware for everything. We, of course, had just recently purged all but >> one of our Netware systems. That one had been around for a LONG time >> and was tied into *everything*. Every time we tried to shut it down it >> broke something, somewhere. . . . Needless to say, there was NO >> documentation for this system. . . . > > Yes, that's common the longer systems have been around. I worked as a > Solaris sysadmin contractor at Synopsis in the late 1990s. This company > grew and accreted their network rather than plan it. One project I did > was shutdown and move about 50 desktop Sparc systems to a company that > bought the assets of one the companies Synopsis acquired. Two days > later, someone from the loading dock called about one of those systems > being down. Apparently they used an Informix DBMS on it to do their > shipping. They weren't very happy to hear that it was on it's way to > Oregon never to return. I image some managers were yelling at each > other somewhere but that was above my pay grade. > > The best and worst environment I worked in was a change controlled > datacenter with about 25 large servers running the company's business. > Any change, even a reboot, had to be run by the change control committee > that met once a week. That made sense to me as I'd have to present a > project plan outlining what I'd be doing, step-by-step, what the service > techs would be doing, and how long it would take. Each system had a > documented configuration that was mandated to be kept up to date. So, > project document ensured that any changes made updated the > configuration. That company had fun with "making do" when it could. > They had an ancient PBX that only had a serial line and a 9-track tape > drive. Someone wrote a VMS FORTRAN program to convert that tape to > ASCII and format it for their web-based employee directory. That was > because the lone OpenVMS system had a 9-track drive and was mandated to > be kept for 25 years by customer contract. Only my manager and I could > read and follow that program. They also had a C program to manage a > shipping carrousel that hardcoded the IP addresses of the hardware. > Seems I was the only one who could read and follow that code. Very sad. > > I can't imagine someone, unless they were f'ing brilliant being able to > pick up and step into these sorts of environments. It's not about the > separate systems, but how they interact amongst themselves. > > "No, you can't shut down that system. The accounting system uses it to > pull information weekly for payroll. And this weekend, we're doing the > yearly close." > I introduced the idea of a "System Book" for every system we had. They were pretty small "books" but we documented each system with: name, model, serial number, IP address, O/S and version, hardware configuration (memory size, device controllers, disks, tape drives, etc, etc. They were pretty small "books", perhaps two or three pages each; just enough detail so that we could order a replacement if we needed to. We documented the managers who relied on the system, which applications ran on the machine and who used them. We included sufficient detail so that we could pretty much replace our data center with identical or equivalent hardware and software. We never needed it, a highly desirable outcome! If we had, we could have built an equivalent of our data center if, for instance, a large aircraft had tried to land on our roof and crashed.
From: Richard B. Gilbert on 21 Apr 2010 08:14 banni wrote: > what we need to get unix solaris system admin job 1. Experience! 2. To get a job in an English speaking country or organization, better English. It is clear from what you wrote that, if your native language is English, you are poorly educated! I am assuming that you are well educated and that English is, for you, a second language. I am not criticizing! Your English is far better than my Spanish, German, Japanese, or Turkish! I can order a beer in all four of those languages and that is the extent of my linguistic abilities! You can gain some of the necessary experience by obtaining a copy of Solaris, SPARC, X86, or both and installing Solaris. Add some users. Limit the amount of disk space available to the users. Install some patches. Create a print queue and make it work.
From: Michael Laajanen on 21 Apr 2010 12:16
Hi, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > banni wrote: >> what we need to get unix solaris system admin job > > 1. Experience! > 2. To get a job in an English speaking country or organization, better > English. It is clear from what you wrote that, if your native language > is English, you are poorly educated! I am assuming that you are well > educated and that English is, for you, a second language. > > I am not criticizing! Your English is far better than my Spanish, > German, Japanese, or Turkish! I can order a beer in all four of those > languages and that is the extent of my linguistic abilities! > > You can gain some of the necessary experience by obtaining a copy of > Solaris, SPARC, X86, or both and installing Solaris. Add some users. > Limit the amount of disk space available to the users. Install some > patches. Create a print queue and make it work. Even I can do that, and I am only a part time sysadm far from thinking of applying for any sysadm job :) I think if one ask what it takes to get a specific job then that person does not have it! /michael |