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From: BillW50 on 1 Apr 2010 11:08
In news:28f7r5tl998dorinf745p32p4tuhu8ct7f(a)4ax.com,
Charlie Hoffpauir typed on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:31:13 -0500:
> On Tue, 15 May 2007 10:23:07 -0400, "Chris" <rrufiange(a)cfl.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM(a)neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:4649af11$0$16665$4c368faf(a)roadrunner.com...
>>> There is no answer to this question; it depends on how the laptop is
>>> treated and used. I have seen people destroy laptops in 1-2 years,
>>> but I buy and sell a few older models, and I have lots (dozens) of
>>> 10-year old laptops. It's a lot like a car; a 4-year old car can
>>> be "like new", or it can be a wreck. It depends a lot on the owner.
>>
>> Thanks. Well, what's the longest you've seen one maintain operation
>> without needing to replace parts (not including the battery)? I'm
>> very forgiving on my electronics. I don't bump, scratch, and drop
>> them, and I do read care instructions in the manual. :-P
>
> In addition to what Barry said, it also depends on the laptop. I've
> had 3 Thinkpads. My first one, a 365XD, still works. The 2nd one (an A
> 30) quit just after the warranty expired. The 3rd one, a T42 is still
> working but the internal circuity to charge the battery quit working
> (still runs on AC tho). And I've treated them all pretty much the
> same. Since I really only use a laptop when visiting the library, I
> give them really light usage. They all still "look" like new.
>
> I wouldn't be at all surprised if you got 10 years use.... but I also
> wouldn't be surprised to hear that it died after 12 months.
> --
> Charlie Hoffpauir

I didn't see the original or Barry's reply. But I see yours Charlie,
thanks!

I bought my first laptop back in '84 and it still works just like it did
when new. Same with my second laptop I bought in '88. The one I bought
in '94 didn't have a fan and it cooked itself in 5 years. I bought two
more in '99 and they are still working just fine. One the screen is
about half of the brightness when new though.

In 2006, I bought this Gateway MX6124 refurbished. And everything works
except the lid switch never worked since I got it. But I don't care if
it works or not. I bought two more MX6124 used off of eBay with some
problems to use as spare parts (whenever the day comes that I will need
any).

I also bought a Gateway M465e on eBay that didn't work from the AC. I
gambled and bought a docking station and it works fine getting AC power
from there. So I really don't care if the power jack works or not.

I also bought five netbooks back in '08. Two I bought broken just to use
as parts. And they are working just fine too. There isn't much that can
go wrong with them really. The backlight is lit by LEDs and not by a
cold cathode florescent lamp. And there aren't any moving parts except
the fan. And these models don't really need a fan and some have removed
them without any problems reported. And since the Celeron CPUs are under
clocked, the CPUs don't get anywhere near hot anyway.

So I have had very good luck with my laptops. And I find laptops in
general are far more reliable compared to desktops. Although I stopped
buying desktops back in 2001. And I believe since then, they too are
more reliable than they once have been. Heck back in the 80's and 90's,
memory chips failed a lot. But those same companies have long gone out
of business as well. It is true of early computer manufactures too. Some
of them were really poorly designed from the start. They either improved
or went out of business.

Since I am not fond of Vista, Windows 7, or even Linux, I am planning on
sticking to the last year manufactures supported Windows XP laptops.
Meaning I like 2006 models the best. That is why I have so many of them.
As I am hoping they will hold me for another decade or two in the
future. And why not, my first laptop is 26 years old and it still works
just fine. And that other one is 22 years old and it is doing just fine
too. So it certainly can be done. ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) 1 of 3 - Windows XP SP2


From: BillW50 on 1 Apr 2010 11:30
In news:hp0tbt$gin$1(a)news.eternal-september.org,
Barry Watzman typed on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:36:54 -0400:
> A couple things to consider in addition to my earlier post.
>
> The cooling systems in laptops use fans and heat exchangers (liquid
> filled radiators ...). These WILL become clogged with dirt, hair and
> dust. WILL, not "may". How long depends on the environment; dirty
> environments, environments were people smoke, and environments with
> cats (yes, cats) are the worst. Sometimes they will clog completely
> in 6 months, sometimes it takes 2-4 years. In servicing laptops, it
> is not uncommon to pull a "dustball" of 1 to 4 cubic inches out hair,
> dust and dirt of the fan and heat exchanger. It can get bad enough
> to stop the fan blades from turning. This WILL actually destroy the
> laptop if the overall capability of the cooling system gets reduced
> beyond a certain point.

I oddly don't have that problem. I am not sure why, but I believe adding
longer rear feet does wonders to keep the laptop fans from sucking up
all of the dust like a mini vac. I don't have any pets anymore since
about 15 years now. But my laptops didn't have fans 15 years ago either.
For example, this laptop is four years old and I use it virtually
everyday. Yet there are no signs of dust or dirt in there yet.

> Another factor is that in their efforts to reduce both weight and
> cost, modern consumer laptops are "flimsy". They flex (the entire
> laptop, and with it the motherboard) enough so that the BGA chips
> (the chipset and video chips, among others) may have their BGA
> connections to the motherboard broken. This is a common problem in
> some models of Toshiba laptops (A100, A135 in particular). The
> symptom is "motherboard failure".

Manufacturing solid motherboards is an art. Some I am sure may work for
hundreds of years (if the components last that long). While some,
something went wrong during the manufacturing process or the people
manufacturing them just doesn't have the knack for them quite right yet.

> A final factor is that many laptops simply don't pay enough attention
> to cooling the CHIPSET and (if separate) the Video processor. These
> chips then also overheat and end up failing. Another common problem
> in later laptops, which also manifests itself as "motherboard
> failure". This failure mode can be a consequence of the
> dust/dirt/hair problem described above, since, in the end, the
> [usually] single internal fan
> is really cooling everything, even though it's nominally the "CPU
> fan".

Well it is mostly the fault of video chip manufactures trying out spec
their competition. And they use their same high powered video chips they
use in desktops and throw them inside of a tight spaced laptop. I
wouldn't buy one of those high graphic powered laptops. As you are just
asking for problems.

> Unfortunately, on most laptops, cleaning the cooling system requires
> major (MAJOR) disassembly, although I have seen some models [Dell]
> that actually had a door on the bottom explicitly for this purpose.
> But, on many models, you actually have to remove the motherboard from
> the computer, because the fan and heatsink are on the bottom of the
> motherboard and there is no door in the bottom case for access.

One other thing I like about those Gateway MX and M models is the trap
door for the heatsink and fan. So easy to remove, replace, and/or clean.
Also easy to swap out the CPU as well.

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) 1 of 3 - Windows XP SP2


From: Charlie Hoffpauir on 1 Apr 2010 11:58
On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 10:08:13 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50(a)aol.kom> wrote:

>In news:28f7r5tl998dorinf745p32p4tuhu8ct7f(a)4ax.com,
>Charlie Hoffpauir typed on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:31:13 -0500:
>> On Tue, 15 May 2007 10:23:07 -0400, "Chris" <rrufiange(a)cfl.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM(a)neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4649af11$0$16665$4c368faf(a)roadrunner.com...
>>>> There is no answer to this question; it depends on how the laptop is
>>>> treated and used. I have seen people destroy laptops in 1-2 years,
>>>> but I buy and sell a few older models, and I have lots (dozens) of
>>>> 10-year old laptops. It's a lot like a car; a 4-year old car can
>>>> be "like new", or it can be a wreck. It depends a lot on the owner.
>>>
>>> Thanks. Well, what's the longest you've seen one maintain operation
>>> without needing to replace parts (not including the battery)? I'm
>>> very forgiving on my electronics. I don't bump, scratch, and drop
>>> them, and I do read care instructions in the manual. :-P
>>
>> In addition to what Barry said, it also depends on the laptop. I've
>> had 3 Thinkpads. My first one, a 365XD, still works. The 2nd one (an A
>> 30) quit just after the warranty expired. The 3rd one, a T42 is still
>> working but the internal circuity to charge the battery quit working
>> (still runs on AC tho). And I've treated them all pretty much the
>> same. Since I really only use a laptop when visiting the library, I
>> give them really light usage. They all still "look" like new.
>>
>> I wouldn't be at all surprised if you got 10 years use.... but I also
>> wouldn't be surprised to hear that it died after 12 months.
>> --
>> Charlie Hoffpauir
>
>I didn't see the original or Barry's reply. But I see yours Charlie,
>thanks!
>
>I bought my first laptop back in '84 and it still works just like it did
>when new. Same with my second laptop I bought in '88. The one I bought
>in '94 didn't have a fan and it cooked itself in 5 years. I bought two
>more in '99 and they are still working just fine. One the screen is
>about half of the brightness when new though.
>
>In 2006, I bought this Gateway MX6124 refurbished. And everything works
>except the lid switch never worked since I got it. But I don't care if
>it works or not. I bought two more MX6124 used off of eBay with some
>problems to use as spare parts (whenever the day comes that I will need
>any).
>
>I also bought a Gateway M465e on eBay that didn't work from the AC. I
>gambled and bought a docking station and it works fine getting AC power
>from there. So I really don't care if the power jack works or not.
>
>I also bought five netbooks back in '08. Two I bought broken just to use
>as parts. And they are working just fine too. There isn't much that can
>go wrong with them really. The backlight is lit by LEDs and not by a
>cold cathode florescent lamp. And there aren't any moving parts except
>the fan. And these models don't really need a fan and some have removed
>them without any problems reported. And since the Celeron CPUs are under
>clocked, the CPUs don't get anywhere near hot anyway.
>
>So I have had very good luck with my laptops. And I find laptops in
>general are far more reliable compared to desktops. Although I stopped
>buying desktops back in 2001. And I believe since then, they too are
>more reliable than they once have been. Heck back in the 80's and 90's,
>memory chips failed a lot. But those same companies have long gone out
>of business as well. It is true of early computer manufactures too. Some
>of them were really poorly designed from the start. They either improved
>or went out of business.
>
>Since I am not fond of Vista, Windows 7, or even Linux, I am planning on
>sticking to the last year manufactures supported Windows XP laptops.
>Meaning I like 2006 models the best. That is why I have so many of them.
>As I am hoping they will hold me for another decade or two in the
>future. And why not, my first laptop is 26 years old and it still works
>just fine. And that other one is 22 years old and it is doing just fine
>too. So it certainly can be done. ;-)

Bill,

I just happened to re-read this thread, and I now see that the OP
posted in 2007! It showed up in my news reader (Agent) as an unread
post, so I replied to it, unaware that it was really an old post.
However, it looks like a long dead issue, so I'm afraid I just
regurgitated an old issue.
--
Charlie Hoffpauir

Everything is what it is because it got that way....D'Arcy Thompson
From: Ryan P. on 1 Apr 2010 14:41
On 4/1/2010 10:08 AM, BillW50 wrote:

> So I have had very good luck with my laptops. And I find laptops in
> general are far more reliable compared to desktops. Although I stopped
> buying desktops back in 2001. And I believe since then, they too are
> more reliable than they once have been. Heck back in the 80's and 90's,
> memory chips failed a lot. But those same companies have long gone out
> of business as well. It is true of early computer manufactures too. Some
> of them were really poorly designed from the start. They either improved
> or went out of business.

I've got a Commodore 64 purchased around 1989, and an Amiga 4000 with
expanded memory purchased around '93ish.. Both are still running
strong. Well, the Amiga is a good auxiliary retro gaming system (the PC
versions of most games around that time simply are not as pretty) that I
use regularly. The C-64 gets booted up twice a year or so these days. :)

I actually know somebody who found an old Kaypro in his father's
basement, and the darn thing still worked.

I still think its 50% luck, as with my HP laptop. The other 50% is,
as mentioned up-thread, not letting them get filled with dust and
dander. Or cigarette smoke.
From: RnR on 2 Apr 2010 07:50
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:31:46 +0100, Christopher Choi
<chutsu(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>On 15/05/2007 11:22, Chris wrote:
>> I've been reading an operating manual for a "used" model laptop (Omnibook
>> 500, by HP), and wondering how long PHYSICALLY can a laptop last? I don't
>> mean battery life, but the hardware itself. I've checked google, but it
>> seems alot of articles consider operational life on the basis of whether or
>> not it's hardware can handle an OS upgrade to whatever is available this
>> year.
>>
>> I'm wondering, if I am comfortable with the OS it was designed to support,
>> and am happy with the hardware specs, how long can i realistically expect
>> the device to continue functioning?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>There are so many factors, its like asking how long a car should last...
>it all depends who makes them. Obviously you would expect a Benz to out
>last a cheapy Toyota... but then you never know.
>
>My personal experience is that Macs last a lot longer because all the
>components are carefully chosen and designed by themselves, not that
>other manufacturers don't but... its just my personal feeling that Apple
>has put a lot more effort... their product design is evident.
>
>PCs on the other hand, I would say Sony comes top, then HP, Dell, and
>the Acer last.
>
>Computers depending on how they were designed made, and treated can
>often last 5+ years easily.
>Chris



I don't think the question gives enough information or he needs to
define "last". Case in poiint, I had to replace one keyboard on a
laptop for about $13 (parts). Does that mean the laptop did not
last? Perhaps he should clarify the question to mean from a
financial point of view or how long the parts may be available.
Otherwise I have to agree with your first sentence.
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