long wire antenna
in [Repair]
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From: AZ Nomad on 8 Mar 2010 22:00 On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 21:47:35 -0500, Rich Webb <bbew.ar(a)mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote: >On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:29:02 -0600, AZ Nomad ><aznomad.3(a)PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote: >>On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 21:12:26 -0500, Rich Webb <bbew.ar(a)mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote: >>>On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 01:53:39 -0000, "Arfa Daily" >>><arfa.daily(a)ntlworld.com> wrote: >> >>>>I saw an interesting dissertation on this some time back, which put forward >>>>a much more complex but better believable theory as to how a wing flies. >> >>>It's not really that complex. Didn't you ever, as a kid, hold your arm >>>out the car window with your hand flat and "fly" it up and down as you >>>changed the angle of attack? That's really all that's necessary. An >>>airplane could fly (if not very efficiently) with wings made from flat >>>sheets of plywood. >> >>All you've got there is an inclined plane. You aren't creating lift. >> >>Try it without the car. >The saying goes something like: with enough power, you could fly a >brick. The lift comes from the angle of attack. Nope. You're just describing a fin. Lift comes from turbulance on the upper edge causing a vacuum. Without the airfoil, what you have is pre wright brothers technology which didn't fly.
From: Rich Webb on 8 Mar 2010 22:26 On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 21:00:51 -0600, AZ Nomad <aznomad.3(a)PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote: >On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 21:47:35 -0500, Rich Webb <bbew.ar(a)mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote: >>On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:29:02 -0600, AZ Nomad >><aznomad.3(a)PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote: > >>>On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 21:12:26 -0500, Rich Webb <bbew.ar(a)mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote: >>>>On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 01:53:39 -0000, "Arfa Daily" >>>><arfa.daily(a)ntlworld.com> wrote: >>> >>>>>I saw an interesting dissertation on this some time back, which put forward >>>>>a much more complex but better believable theory as to how a wing flies. >>> >>>>It's not really that complex. Didn't you ever, as a kid, hold your arm >>>>out the car window with your hand flat and "fly" it up and down as you >>>>changed the angle of attack? That's really all that's necessary. An >>>>airplane could fly (if not very efficiently) with wings made from flat >>>>sheets of plywood. >>> >>>All you've got there is an inclined plane. You aren't creating lift. >>> >>>Try it without the car. > >>The saying goes something like: with enough power, you could fly a >>brick. The lift comes from the angle of attack. > >Nope. You're just describing a fin. > >Lift comes from turbulance on the upper edge causing a vacuum. >Without the airfoil, what you have is pre wright brothers technology >which didn't fly. The Wright's were pretty smart and used a good airfoil design, otherwise they'd have had to wait for another generation of efficient (power vs weight) internal combustion engines to make the first flight. Good designs have less drag and do produce more lift. Poor designs need more thrust. Ever fly one of those balsa wood gliders? (Do they even still make those?) Body & rudder, wings, and elevators all punched out of a flat sheet. Stick on a prop and a rubber band engine and it does fly. Rack time ... -- Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
From: tm on 8 Mar 2010 22:36 "AZ Nomad" <aznomad.3(a)PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote in message news:slrnhpbef2.o0t.aznomad.3(a)ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net... > On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 21:47:35 -0500, Rich Webb <bbew.ar(a)mapson.nozirev.ten> > wrote: >>On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:29:02 -0600, AZ Nomad >><aznomad.3(a)PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote: > >>>On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 21:12:26 -0500, Rich Webb >>><bbew.ar(a)mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote: >>>>On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 01:53:39 -0000, "Arfa Daily" >>>><arfa.daily(a)ntlworld.com> wrote: >>> >>>>>I saw an interesting dissertation on this some time back, which put >>>>>forward >>>>>a much more complex but better believable theory as to how a wing >>>>>flies. >>> >>>>It's not really that complex. Didn't you ever, as a kid, hold your arm >>>>out the car window with your hand flat and "fly" it up and down as you >>>>changed the angle of attack? That's really all that's necessary. An >>>>airplane could fly (if not very efficiently) with wings made from flat >>>>sheets of plywood. >>> >>>All you've got there is an inclined plane. You aren't creating lift. >>> >>>Try it without the car. > >>The saying goes something like: with enough power, you could fly a >>brick. The lift comes from the angle of attack. > > Nope. You're just describing a fin. > > Lift comes from turbulance on the upper edge causing a vacuum. > Without the airfoil, what you have is pre wright brothers technology > which didn't fly. > Tell that to a Harrier pilot. Horsepower is king.
From: Phil Allison on 8 Mar 2010 22:37 "AZ Nomad" > >> An airplane could fly (if not very efficiently) with wings made from >> flat sheets of plywood. > > All you've got there is an inclined plane. You aren't creating lift. > ** Bollocks. Study this page very carefully: http://www.aviation-history.com/theory/lift.htm ..... Phil
From: Leonard Caillouet on 9 Mar 2010 06:07
"AZ Nomad" <aznomad.3(a)PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote in message news:slrnhpbef2.o0t.aznomad.3(a)ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net... > On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 21:47:35 -0500, Rich Webb <bbew.ar(a)mapson.nozirev.ten> > wrote: >>On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:29:02 -0600, AZ Nomad >><aznomad.3(a)PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote: > >>>On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 21:12:26 -0500, Rich Webb >>><bbew.ar(a)mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote: >>>>On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 01:53:39 -0000, "Arfa Daily" >>>><arfa.daily(a)ntlworld.com> wrote: >>> >>>>>I saw an interesting dissertation on this some time back, which put >>>>>forward >>>>>a much more complex but better believable theory as to how a wing >>>>>flies. >>> >>>>It's not really that complex. Didn't you ever, as a kid, hold your arm >>>>out the car window with your hand flat and "fly" it up and down as you >>>>changed the angle of attack? That's really all that's necessary. An >>>>airplane could fly (if not very efficiently) with wings made from flat >>>>sheets of plywood. >>> >>>All you've got there is an inclined plane. You aren't creating lift. >>> >>>Try it without the car. > >>The saying goes something like: with enough power, you could fly a >>brick. The lift comes from the angle of attack. > > Nope. You're just describing a fin. > > Lift comes from turbulance on the upper edge causing a vacuum. > Without the airfoil, what you have is pre wright brothers technology > which didn't fly. > Lift is still lift, whether it comes from the shape of the device or the angle of attack. When you change the angle you increase the pressure on the bottom. With a difference in pressure you have lift. As has been said before, not very efficient, and not straight up, and therefore difficult to create controlled flight. Leonard |