From: Frederick Williams on
Ken Pledger wrote:
>
> In article
> <23e22f17-9223-4f3d-aecf-4d196c064aca(a)v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
> Max <30f0fn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I just started going through _Dynamic Epistemic Logic_ by van
> > Ditmarsch et al. I am a little rusty on modal logic and have gotten
> > stuck on an early exercise.
> >
> > The problem is actually misstated in the book, but I'm pretty sure
> > that what they mean (or, the component of what they're asking for that
> > I'm stuck on) is:
> >
> > Let the logic _K''_ result from the usual logic _K_ by replacing the
> > axiom scheme
> >
> > k: L(A->B) -> (LA -> LB)
> >
> > with the scheme
> >
> > k'': L(A.B) -> LA . LB.
> >
> > Show that every instance of the k scheme is derivable in the logic
> > _K''_.
> > ....
>
> You say "I'm pretty sure that what they mean .... is ...."
> I wonder whether you may have that wrong. If the main operator of your
> k'' is material _equivalence_ rather than implication, then you're very
> close to what's explained in Hughes & Cresswell, 1st edition, pp.123-5.
> (They consider T rather than K, but that shouldn't matter much.)
> Instead of the necessitation rule, that approach uses the rule:
> if |- (A <-> B) then |- (LA <-> LB).
> I haven't proved that your version above doesn't work; but it would be a
> bit surprising to find that the argument in Hughes & Cresswell uses a
> stronger basis than it needs.

I haven't tried but I wonder if the asked for derivation can be proved
invalid by using neighbourhood models. Rule A <-> B / LA <-> LB plus
axiom L(A.B) -> LA . LB is what Chellas calls EM which is strictly
weaker than K.

--
Pigeons were widely suspected of secret intercourse with the
enemy; counter-measures included the use of British birds of
prey to intercept suspicious pigeons in mid-air.
Christopher Andrew, 'Defence of the Realm', Allen Lane
From: Ken Pledger on
In article
<ken.pledger-B99907.11314021012010(a)news.eternal-september.org>,
Ken Pledger <ken.pledger(a)mcs.vuw.ac.nz> wrote:

> In article
> <23e22f17-9223-4f3d-aecf-4d196c064aca(a)v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
> Max <30f0fn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > .... I'm pretty sure that what they mean .... is:
> >
> > Let the logic _K''_ result from the usual logic _K_ by replacing the
> > axiom scheme
> >
> > k: L(A->B) -> (LA -> LB)
> >
> > with the scheme
> >
> > k'': L(A.B) -> LA . LB.
> >
> > Show that every instance of the k scheme is derivable in the logic
> > _K''_.
> > ....
>
>
> You say "I'm pretty sure that what they mean .... is ...."
> I wonder whether you may have that wrong. If the main operator of your
> k'' is material _equivalence_ rather than implication, then you're very
> close to what's explained in Hughes & Cresswell, 1st edition, pp.123-5.
> (They consider T rather than K, but that shouldn't matter much.)
> Instead of the necessitation rule, that approach uses the rule:
> if |- (A <-> B) then |- (LA <-> LB).
> I haven't proved that your version above doesn't work; but it would be a
> bit surprising to find that the argument in Hughes & Cresswell uses a
> stronger basis than it needs.
>
> Ken Pledger.


On 21-1-2010, at 2.54 PM, max.morgan.weiss(a)gmail.com privately e-mailed:
> .... We toyed around with using L(A.B)<->LA.LB instead of L(A.B)<->LA.LB
> but still couldn't manage it....

O.K. As suggested above, I'll assume the axiom schema:
(1) LA.LB -> L(A.B)
and the rule:
(2) if |- (A <-> B) then |- (LA <-> LB).

By PC A.(A -> B) -> B
Then by (2) L(A.(A -> B)) -> LB
From (1) LA.L(A -> B) -> L(A.(A -> B))
From the last two formulae by PC
LA.L(A -> B) -> LB
By PC L(A -> B) -> (LA -> LB) q.e.d.

Ken Pledger.
From: Ken Pledger on
In article <ken.pledger-1A1D96.08540222012010(a)nothing.attdns.com>,
Ken Pledger <ken.pledger(a)mcs.vuw.ac.nz> wrote:

> ....
> O.K. As suggested above, I'll assume the axiom schema:
> (1) LA.LB -> L(A.B)
> and the rule:
> (2) if |- (A <-> B) then |- (LA <-> LB).
>
> By PC A.(A -> B) -> B
> Then by (2) L(A.(A -> B)) -> LB
> From (1) LA.L(A -> B) -> L(A.(A -> B))
> From the last two formulae by PC
> LA.L(A -> B) -> LB
> By PC L(A -> B) -> (LA -> LB) ....



An e-mail from the OP pointed out (very politely) that I messed up
that proof. :-( (1) needs to be
(3) LA.LB �<-> �L(A.B)
after all. ��The corrected proof is then:

By PC A.(A -> B) �<-> �(A.B)
Then by (2) L(A.(A -> B)) �<-> �L(A.B)
so by (3) and PC LA.L(A -> B) �<-> �L(A).L(B)
so by PC L(A -> B) -> (LA -> LB).

Ken Pledger.