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From: jay on 15 Jan 2010 13:09
On Jan 15, 2:57 am, solx <nos...(a)example.net> wrote:
> On 15/01/2010 03:00, Canuck57 wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 14/01/2010 8:26 AM, jay wrote:
> >> hi,
>
> >> i'm considering putting together a fairly beefy machine.
> >> like, 2 cpu sockets, quad core cpus,
> >> 64 or 128 GB mem
> >> extended ATX form factor.
>
> >> i've tried googling this, and i get a lot of false trails.
> >> where should i go for suggestions? or is there a list
> >> of things to look for, like a particular bios, or this chip,
> >> or...?
>
> >> don't knock yourself out on this. i've been sitting on the fence
> >> for quite a while. i don't have any burning problem to solve.
> >> it's basically a hobby -- like building a hot rod or something.
> >> i thought about doing some quantum chemistry w/ it, but
> >> that's another story.
>
> >> thanks in advance.
> >> j.
>
> >http://www.tyan.com/product_board.aspx
>
> > But do they run Solaris? Don't know but suspect if you are not precisely
> > careful, you will have problems with drivers. HCL is OK, but be exact
> > right to the rev level. If you see a Asus mobo with a supported ICH?R -
> > be careful. A BIOS rev and you could be screwed.
>
> Hi,
>
> While at the last firm I worked for I purchased around 12 Tyan servers
> over a two year period, along with a single desktop motherboard.
>         Eleven server boards were fine, one had to be replaced after two years
> with a Supermicro board. I needed to upgrade the Bios on one of
> motherboards, the replacement Bios version screwed up the SCSI
> controller (awkward with SCSI discs).
>         After contacting Tyan they sent me an updated Bios version which was
> worse than the update (they had not tested it before shipping which is
> why I stopped purchasing Tyan motherboards).
>         The desktop board was faulty on purchase, various I/O modules just did
> not work this was not determined until later as they were not required.
>         While with Supermicro boards I have never had a Bios problem when I
> have upgraded, however Supermicro boards which indicate ACPI 1.0, 2.0
> and v3.0 support. However they do not fully support the ACPI 3.0
> specification (which I found after using a Sun supplied utility to dump
> the ACPI information, nor have they since contacting them over 6 months
> ago). It is possible for Supermicro to fully support the ACPI 3.0 and
> v4,0 as AMI (who provide the Bios source to Supermicro to build update
> their Bios to fully support the standards). Using ACPI 3.0 Solaris
> should be able to report on temperature (system, cpu and core), power
> usage, etc without resorting to dedicated applications accessing the
> hardware. The ACPI v4.0 offers even more instrumentation information
> with Solaris, Linux and Windows supports if only the vendors provided it.
> If you are looking at a new motherboard ask about full ACPI v4.0 support
> to allow Solaris fully monitor and control the hardware. Unless we ask
> for proper ACPI implementation we will get cut down support from the
> motherboard manufacturers.

I'm familiar w/ the HCL, but there's not much **new** on there. I
should
have mentioned that.

I have a Tyan at home now, dang if I haven't forgotten which one it
is.
It's my file server, no fuss, no muss. So I'm a little surprised to
hear
there's issues w/ the bios. I don't mean to cross examine here, but,
were your bios problems bad enough to keep the OS from running?
For the SCSI disks, I'm sure, but, otherwise?

What bios should I look for on a Supermicro? Were they Intel cpu
boards, or
AMD boards? I'm not up to speed on Supermicro.

And thanks to all.

j.
From: solx on 15 Jan 2010 14:19
On 15/01/2010 18:09, jay wrote:
> On Jan 15, 2:57 am, solx<nos...(a)example.net> wrote:
>> On 15/01/2010 03:00, Canuck57 wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 14/01/2010 8:26 AM, jay wrote:
>>>> hi,
>>
>>>> i'm considering putting together a fairly beefy machine.
>>>> like, 2 cpu sockets, quad core cpus,
>>>> 64 or 128 GB mem
>>>> extended ATX form factor.
>>
>>>> i've tried googling this, and i get a lot of false trails.
>>>> where should i go for suggestions? or is there a list
>>>> of things to look for, like a particular bios, or this chip,
>>>> or...?
>>
>>>> don't knock yourself out on this. i've been sitting on the fence
>>>> for quite a while. i don't have any burning problem to solve.
>>>> it's basically a hobby -- like building a hot rod or something.
>>>> i thought about doing some quantum chemistry w/ it, but
>>>> that's another story.
>>
>>>> thanks in advance.
>>>> j.
>>
>>> http://www.tyan.com/product_board.aspx
>>
>>> But do they run Solaris? Don't know but suspect if you are not precisely
>>> careful, you will have problems with drivers. HCL is OK, but be exact
>>> right to the rev level. If you see a Asus mobo with a supported ICH?R -
>>> be careful. A BIOS rev and you could be screwed.
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> While at the last firm I worked for I purchased around 12 Tyan servers
>> over a two year period, along with a single desktop motherboard.
>> Eleven server boards were fine, one had to be replaced after two years
>> with a Supermicro board. I needed to upgrade the Bios on one of
>> motherboards, the replacement Bios version screwed up the SCSI
>> controller (awkward with SCSI discs).
>> After contacting Tyan they sent me an updated Bios version which was
>> worse than the update (they had not tested it before shipping which is
>> why I stopped purchasing Tyan motherboards).
>> The desktop board was faulty on purchase, various I/O modules just did
>> not work this was not determined until later as they were not required.
>> While with Supermicro boards I have never had a Bios problem when I
>> have upgraded, however Supermicro boards which indicate ACPI 1.0, 2.0
>> and v3.0 support. However they do not fully support the ACPI 3.0
>> specification (which I found after using a Sun supplied utility to dump
>> the ACPI information, nor have they since contacting them over 6 months
>> ago). It is possible for Supermicro to fully support the ACPI 3.0 and
>> v4,0 as AMI (who provide the Bios source to Supermicro to build update
>> their Bios to fully support the standards). Using ACPI 3.0 Solaris
>> should be able to report on temperature (system, cpu and core), power
>> usage, etc without resorting to dedicated applications accessing the
>> hardware. The ACPI v4.0 offers even more instrumentation information
>> with Solaris, Linux and Windows supports if only the vendors provided it.
>> If you are looking at a new motherboard ask about full ACPI v4.0 support
>> to allow Solaris fully monitor and control the hardware. Unless we ask
>> for proper ACPI implementation we will get cut down support from the
>> motherboard manufacturers.
>
> I'm familiar w/ the HCL, but there's not much **new** on there. I
> should
> have mentioned that.
>
> I have a Tyan at home now, dang if I haven't forgotten which one it
> is.
> It's my file server, no fuss, no muss. So I'm a little surprised to
> hear
> there's issues w/ the bios. I don't mean to cross examine here, but,
> were your bios problems bad enough to keep the OS from running?
> For the SCSI disks, I'm sure, but, otherwise?
>
> What bios should I look for on a Supermicro? Were they Intel cpu
> boards, or
> AMD boards? I'm not up to speed on Supermicro.
>
> And thanks to all.
>
> j.

The Bios upgrade resulted in the SCSI errors just during power up before
the OS even attempted to load. Even after informing them that the Bios
upgrade rendered SCSI unusable, the same faulty Bios was left on their
website after six months....when it should have been removed.
This kind of support does not inspire confidence.

Supermicro have Intel ( http://www.supermicro.com )and AMD motherboards
( http://www.supermicro.com/aplus ). I have always found them to be
reliable. Unfortunately Supermicro does not full support the ACPI v3.0
or v4.0 specification but according to AMI some vendors do.

I would suggest you email the sales department of the various
manufacturers and ask if they fully support the ACPI v4.0 specification;
then draw up a short list and pick one that best meets your needs.

From: Canuck57 on 15 Jan 2010 19:59
On 15/01/2010 1:57 AM, solx wrote:
> On 15/01/2010 03:00, Canuck57 wrote:
>> On 14/01/2010 8:26 AM, jay wrote:
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> i'm considering putting together a fairly beefy machine.
>>> like, 2 cpu sockets, quad core cpus,
>>> 64 or 128 GB mem
>>> extended ATX form factor.
>>>
>>> i've tried googling this, and i get a lot of false trails.
>>> where should i go for suggestions? or is there a list
>>> of things to look for, like a particular bios, or this chip,
>>> or...?
>>>
>>> don't knock yourself out on this. i've been sitting on the fence
>>> for quite a while. i don't have any burning problem to solve.
>>> it's basically a hobby -- like building a hot rod or something.
>>> i thought about doing some quantum chemistry w/ it, but
>>> that's another story.
>>>
>>> thanks in advance.
>>> j.
>>
>> http://www.tyan.com/product_board.aspx
>>
>> But do they run Solaris? Don't know but suspect if you are not precisely
>> careful, you will have problems with drivers. HCL is OK, but be exact
>> right to the rev level. If you see a Asus mobo with a supported ICH?R -
>> be careful. A BIOS rev and you could be screwed.
>
> Hi,
>
> While at the last firm I worked for I purchased around 12 Tyan servers
> over a two year period, along with a single desktop motherboard.
> Eleven server boards were fine, one had to be replaced after two years
> with a Supermicro board. I needed to upgrade the Bios on one of
> motherboards, the replacement Bios version screwed up the SCSI
> controller (awkward with SCSI discs).
> After contacting Tyan they sent me an updated Bios version which was
> worse than the update (they had not tested it before shipping which is
> why I stopped purchasing Tyan motherboards).
> The desktop board was faulty on purchase, various I/O modules just did
> not work this was not determined until later as they were not required.
> While with Supermicro boards I have never had a Bios problem when I have
> upgraded, however Supermicro boards which indicate ACPI 1.0, 2.0 and
> v3.0 support. However they do not fully support the ACPI 3.0
> specification (which I found after using a Sun supplied utility to dump
> the ACPI information, nor have they since contacting them over 6 months
> ago). It is possible for Supermicro to fully support the ACPI 3.0 and
> v4,0 as AMI (who provide the Bios source to Supermicro to build update
> their Bios to fully support the standards). Using ACPI 3.0 Solaris
> should be able to report on temperature (system, cpu and core), power
> usage, etc without resorting to dedicated applications accessing the
> hardware. The ACPI v4.0 offers even more instrumentation information
> with Solaris, Linux and Windows supports if only the vendors provided it.
> If you are looking at a new motherboard ask about full ACPI v4.0 support
> to allow Solaris fully monitor and control the hardware. Unless we ask
> for proper ACPI implementation we will get cut down support from the
> motherboard manufacturers.

For servers, and for high use workstations I always turn ACPI right off.
Disable it in BIOS or the driver. Even a modern version of Vista
can't get stable power management. Seriously, if it is a server crank
it up and one less driver to have problems with.

Want to save power/heat, yank the video cards and again, dtlogin isn't
needed. Less to go wrong and more memory for the app. Use the serial port.

Do like SuperMicro. Even ran Solaris on one for 9 years, dual P III.
Worked like a charm.
From: Canuck57 on 15 Jan 2010 20:03
On 15/01/2010 12:19 PM, solx wrote:
> On 15/01/2010 18:09, jay wrote:
>> On Jan 15, 2:57 am, solx<nos...(a)example.net> wrote:
>>> On 15/01/2010 03:00, Canuck57 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 14/01/2010 8:26 AM, jay wrote:
>>>>> hi,
>>>
>>>>> i'm considering putting together a fairly beefy machine.
>>>>> like, 2 cpu sockets, quad core cpus,
>>>>> 64 or 128 GB mem
>>>>> extended ATX form factor.
>>>
>>>>> i've tried googling this, and i get a lot of false trails.
>>>>> where should i go for suggestions? or is there a list
>>>>> of things to look for, like a particular bios, or this chip,
>>>>> or...?
>>>
>>>>> don't knock yourself out on this. i've been sitting on the fence
>>>>> for quite a while. i don't have any burning problem to solve.
>>>>> it's basically a hobby -- like building a hot rod or something.
>>>>> i thought about doing some quantum chemistry w/ it, but
>>>>> that's another story.
>>>
>>>>> thanks in advance.
>>>>> j.
>>>
>>>> http://www.tyan.com/product_board.aspx
>>>
>>>> But do they run Solaris? Don't know but suspect if you are not
>>>> precisely
>>>> careful, you will have problems with drivers. HCL is OK, but be exact
>>>> right to the rev level. If you see a Asus mobo with a supported ICH?R -
>>>> be careful. A BIOS rev and you could be screwed.
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> While at the last firm I worked for I purchased around 12 Tyan servers
>>> over a two year period, along with a single desktop motherboard.
>>> Eleven server boards were fine, one had to be replaced after two years
>>> with a Supermicro board. I needed to upgrade the Bios on one of
>>> motherboards, the replacement Bios version screwed up the SCSI
>>> controller (awkward with SCSI discs).
>>> After contacting Tyan they sent me an updated Bios version which was
>>> worse than the update (they had not tested it before shipping which is
>>> why I stopped purchasing Tyan motherboards).
>>> The desktop board was faulty on purchase, various I/O modules just did
>>> not work this was not determined until later as they were not required.
>>> While with Supermicro boards I have never had a Bios problem when I
>>> have upgraded, however Supermicro boards which indicate ACPI 1.0, 2.0
>>> and v3.0 support. However they do not fully support the ACPI 3.0
>>> specification (which I found after using a Sun supplied utility to dump
>>> the ACPI information, nor have they since contacting them over 6 months
>>> ago). It is possible for Supermicro to fully support the ACPI 3.0 and
>>> v4,0 as AMI (who provide the Bios source to Supermicro to build update
>>> their Bios to fully support the standards). Using ACPI 3.0 Solaris
>>> should be able to report on temperature (system, cpu and core), power
>>> usage, etc without resorting to dedicated applications accessing the
>>> hardware. The ACPI v4.0 offers even more instrumentation information
>>> with Solaris, Linux and Windows supports if only the vendors provided
>>> it.
>>> If you are looking at a new motherboard ask about full ACPI v4.0 support
>>> to allow Solaris fully monitor and control the hardware. Unless we ask
>>> for proper ACPI implementation we will get cut down support from the
>>> motherboard manufacturers.
>>
>> I'm familiar w/ the HCL, but there's not much **new** on there. I
>> should
>> have mentioned that.
>>
>> I have a Tyan at home now, dang if I haven't forgotten which one it
>> is.
>> It's my file server, no fuss, no muss. So I'm a little surprised to
>> hear
>> there's issues w/ the bios. I don't mean to cross examine here, but,
>> were your bios problems bad enough to keep the OS from running?
>> For the SCSI disks, I'm sure, but, otherwise?
>>
>> What bios should I look for on a Supermicro? Were they Intel cpu
>> boards, or
>> AMD boards? I'm not up to speed on Supermicro.
>>
>> And thanks to all.
>>
>> j.
>
> The Bios upgrade resulted in the SCSI errors just during power up before
> the OS even attempted to load. Even after informing them that the Bios
> upgrade rendered SCSI unusable, the same faulty Bios was left on their
> website after six months....when it should have been removed.
> This kind of support does not inspire confidence.
>
> Supermicro have Intel ( http://www.supermicro.com )and AMD motherboards
> ( http://www.supermicro.com/aplus ). I have always found them to be
> reliable. Unfortunately Supermicro does not full support the ACPI v3.0
> or v4.0 specification but according to AMI some vendors do.
>
> I would suggest you email the sales department of the various
> manufacturers and ask if they fully support the ACPI v4.0 specification;
> then draw up a short list and pick one that best meets your needs.

I can see ACPI if it is a desktop that is used 20 minutes a day, but server?

If it saved a KWH a day, say 10 cents per KWH, that is only $3.10 month
for the added stabiltiy of not messing with it. And I am sure if I
asked my boss is $37.20 electricity a year worth avoiding one crash I
know the answer.
From: Michael Laajanen on 16 Jan 2010 04:49
Hi,

Canuck57 wrote:
> On 15/01/2010 1:57 AM, solx wrote:
>> On 15/01/2010 03:00, Canuck57 wrote:
>>> On 14/01/2010 8:26 AM, jay wrote:
>>>> hi,
>>>>
>>>> i'm considering putting together a fairly beefy machine.
>>>> like, 2 cpu sockets, quad core cpus,
>>>> 64 or 128 GB mem
>>>> extended ATX form factor.
>>>>
>>>> i've tried googling this, and i get a lot of false trails.
>>>> where should i go for suggestions? or is there a list
>>>> of things to look for, like a particular bios, or this chip,
>>>> or...?
>>>>
>>>> don't knock yourself out on this. i've been sitting on the fence
>>>> for quite a while. i don't have any burning problem to solve.
>>>> it's basically a hobby -- like building a hot rod or something.
>>>> i thought about doing some quantum chemistry w/ it, but
>>>> that's another story.
>>>>
>>>> thanks in advance.
>>>> j.
>>>
>>> http://www.tyan.com/product_board.aspx
>>>
>>> But do they run Solaris? Don't know but suspect if you are not precisely
>>> careful, you will have problems with drivers. HCL is OK, but be exact
>>> right to the rev level. If you see a Asus mobo with a supported ICH?R -
>>> be careful. A BIOS rev and you could be screwed.
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> While at the last firm I worked for I purchased around 12 Tyan servers
>> over a two year period, along with a single desktop motherboard.
>> Eleven server boards were fine, one had to be replaced after two years
>> with a Supermicro board. I needed to upgrade the Bios on one of
>> motherboards, the replacement Bios version screwed up the SCSI
>> controller (awkward with SCSI discs).
>> After contacting Tyan they sent me an updated Bios version which was
>> worse than the update (they had not tested it before shipping which is
>> why I stopped purchasing Tyan motherboards).
>> The desktop board was faulty on purchase, various I/O modules just did
>> not work this was not determined until later as they were not required.
>> While with Supermicro boards I have never had a Bios problem when I have
>> upgraded, however Supermicro boards which indicate ACPI 1.0, 2.0 and
>> v3.0 support. However they do not fully support the ACPI 3.0
>> specification (which I found after using a Sun supplied utility to dump
>> the ACPI information, nor have they since contacting them over 6 months
>> ago). It is possible for Supermicro to fully support the ACPI 3.0 and
>> v4,0 as AMI (who provide the Bios source to Supermicro to build update
>> their Bios to fully support the standards). Using ACPI 3.0 Solaris
>> should be able to report on temperature (system, cpu and core), power
>> usage, etc without resorting to dedicated applications accessing the
>> hardware. The ACPI v4.0 offers even more instrumentation information
>> with Solaris, Linux and Windows supports if only the vendors provided it.
>> If you are looking at a new motherboard ask about full ACPI v4.0 support
>> to allow Solaris fully monitor and control the hardware. Unless we ask
>> for proper ACPI implementation we will get cut down support from the
>> motherboard manufacturers.
>
> For servers, and for high use workstations I always turn ACPI right off.
> Disable it in BIOS or the driver. Even a modern version of Vista can't
> get stable power management. Seriously, if it is a server crank it up
> and one less driver to have problems with.
>
> Want to save power/heat, yank the video cards and again, dtlogin isn't
> needed. Less to go wrong and more memory for the app. Use the serial
> port.
An go 100% SunRay !

>
> Do like SuperMicro. Even ran Solaris on one for 9 years, dual P III.
> Worked like a charm.

/michael
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