non-deterministic vs. random
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From: RichD on 24 Jun 2010 16:00 Strictly speaking, is there a difference betweem non-determinism and randomness (in a dynamic system)? -- Rich
From: Edward Green on 24 Jun 2010 16:48 On Jun 24, 4:00 pm, RichD <r_delaney2...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Strictly speaking, is there a difference betweem non-determinism > and randomness (in a dynamic system)? > > -- > Rich The two sound synonymous to me. Did you have some distinction in mind?
From: Paul on 24 Jun 2010 17:53 On Jun 24, 4:48 pm, Edward Green <spamspamsp...(a)netzero.com> wrote: > On Jun 24, 4:00 pm, RichD <r_delaney2...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Strictly speaking, is there a difference betweem non-determinism > > and randomness (in a dynamic system)? > > > -- > > Rich > > The two sound synonymous to me. Did you have some distinction in mind? I concur, but I think some people confuse "random" with "purely random". I use "random noise" in class to describe something with a constant mean and variance and no other pattern, and "random" to mean "not deterministic". /Paul
From: OG on 24 Jun 2010 19:37 "RichD" <r_delaney2001(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:96b05160-66bb-46aa-be60-28e198e9e0c3(a)k39g2000yqd.googlegroups.com... > Strictly speaking, is there a difference betweem non-determinism > and randomness (in a dynamic system)? > Strange attractors are associated with non-deterministic dynamical systems. As fas as I'm aware, this is not the case for random systems. So, the answer is yes!
From: Robert Israel on 24 Jun 2010 21:55
"OG" <owen(a)gwynnefamily.org.uk> writes: > > "RichD" <r_delaney2001(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:96b05160-66bb-46aa-be60-28e198e9e0c3(a)k39g2000yqd.googlegroups.com... > > Strictly speaking, is there a difference betweem non-determinism > > and randomness (in a dynamic system)? > > > > Strange attractors are associated with non-deterministic dynamical systems. > > As fas as I'm aware, this is not the case for random systems. > > So, the answer is yes! As far as I am aware, strange attractors are associated with deterministic systems, either discrete (X_{n+1} = f(X_n)) or continuous (X' = f(X)), not with non-deterministic ones. A random discrete system might have X_{n+1} = f(X_n, R_n) where R_n form a sequence of independent random variables with a given distribution. On the other hand, a non-deterministic system could be X_{n+1} = f(X_n, R_n) where R_n are arbitrary inputs (perhaps subject to some constraints, but not assumed to follow any particular probability distribution). -- Robert Israel israel(a)math.MyUniversitysInitials.ca Department of Mathematics http://www.math.ubc.ca/~israel University of British Columbia Vancouver, BC, Canada |