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From: Archimedes Plutonium on 19 Jul 2010 07:40


Archimedes Plutonium wrote:
> pete wrote:
> > Archimedes Plutonium wrote:
> >
> > > progressive in science?
> >
> > Is the theory in this url:
> >
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/08/science/08dogs.html?_r=1&ref=science
> >
> > also one of your theories?
> >
> > --
> > pete
>
>
> I think so, that I was the first to discover it, applying just logic
> to the circumstances.
> The two posts below tell of my theory and a date time group for
> verification. So it is
> nice to see the above Swedish science team finding that China seems to
> be the locus
> of first dog domestication, although it mentions a dispute with some
> sites in Africa.
>
> Also, I was talking about dog domestication for the bowfirebox
> invention which I suspect may
> have been invented before the bow and arrow and which would cause the
> invention of the bow
> and arrow. But to make the bowfirebox requires string and the gut of a
> dog is probably where the string came from for the bowfirebox and I
> had that post circa 2002 talking about the dog as
> the first domesticated animal.
>
> --- reposting two of my old posts of 2004 ---
> Subject: how dogs evolved from wolves; TV NOVA show; 1st domesticated
> farm animal theory
> sci.bio.misc,sci.anthropology,sci.anthropology.paleo
> author: Archimedes Plutonium
> Feb 5 2004, 6:07 pm
> A few days ago I watched a NOVA program on the variety of dogs with
> talk of their evolution from that of wolves. Quite an interesting
> program. However there are very many gaps of logic in the discussion
> of how dogs came from wolves.
>
>
> There was proffered the usual old theory that wolf babies make nice
> pets and hominids would have come upon wolf babies and raised them
> in
> their living camps.
>
>
> Then there was a scientist who proffered a different theory
> suggesting
> that dumpsites of early humans was a place to pick up easy food for
> those wolves tolerant of human nearby prescence.
>
>
> I am going to offer a third theory which sort of incorporates the
> above two. Let me call the above by their main mechanism. The first
> is
> that of "Baby Pet" theory
> and the second would be called the "Dumpsite" theory.
>
>
> My theory would be called the "First Domesticated Farm Animal"
> theory.
>
>
> The logical gap in theories one and two is that they confer little to
> no advantage to the hominids or early humans involved, unless you
> want
> to say that having a pet confers advantage over disadvantage of the
> time spent on the pet, or as in the dumpsite theory that of the
> spectacle of semiwolves near camp is some sort of advantage.
>
>
> My theory of "First Domesticated Animal" as the mechanism of how dogs
> evolved from wolves makes the most sense because it confers the most
> advantage to hominids or early humans. Here is how it works.
> Hominids
> or Early Humans found wolf babies and would take them back to their
> camp. They are too little and young to eat now but as they grow
> older
> fed from the snacks around the campsite (the dump) then they would
> be
> large enough for food to eat.
>
>
> Here I would have to research as to how easy or hard it would be to
> have sheep or cattle hang around close to the campsite so that when
> they got large enough they would be dinner. You see, I have the
> suspicion that wild wolf babies are the animal that has the greatest
> tendency to hang around the campsite than any other wild animal
> baby.
> And thus, wolves would have been the first domesticated animal which
> is rather surprizing because they are carnivours and most of us
> would
> guess that the first domesticated animal would have been a
> herbivore.
> But I doubt that any baby herbivore would have stayed around the
> human
> campsite as steadfast as a pet baby wolf until it grows to enough
> size
> to eat.
>
>
> Remember we are talking of primitive and savage hominids and early
> humans who when looking at pets see them more as future food.
>
>
> Which brings up very many good questions. Was the Dog the first
> domesticated animal? I think it was. I say this because the wild
> wolf
> baby imprints on a human better than a wild-any-other-animal. And
> because of this imprinting the baby wolf would have stayed nearby
> the
> humans until it grew of a size wherein one of the hungry hominids or
> early humans ate the pet for dinner.
>
>
> The Dump theory is okay in that the baby wolf would have wandered no
> further away than the dump. And when the wolf was of a eatable size
> would have been enticed by some scrap food bones and then killed and
> eaten. Sounds gory and awful but that is probably the true sequence
> of
> events that lead from wolves to the evolution of dog. And as this
> relationship continued, the semiwild wolf or dog had ears that
> drooped
> and had a disposition to not run away.
>
>
> We can measure the drooping ears of cattle or other domesticated
> animals compared to their wild counterparts. As early man ate more
> and
> more dogs for their dinners they wanted dogs that would hang around
> the dumps and had droopy ears and not prone to run away.
>
>
> And after hominids or early humans domesticated the wolf by becoming
> the dog, they then got the idea that other animals such as cattle or
> sheep can be domesticated for future dinners as well as the dog.
>
>
> Archimedes Plutonium
> whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
> of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
>
>
>
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>
> Discussion subject changed to "greatest imprint and easy to get would
> be the first domesticated animal-- the wolf Re: how dogs evolved from
> wolves; TV NOVA show; 1st domesticated farm animal theory" by
> Archimedes Plutonium
>
> Archimedes Plutonium  
>
> View profile  
>  More options Feb 6 2004, 8:30 am
> So, how did the wolf become the dog? According to my theory the wolf
> was
> the first human domesticated animal and it was domesticated not
> because
> it helped Early humans or even hominids, but rather, it was
> domesticated
> to eat for dinner. And the way it came about is probably due to the
> fact
> that baby wolves were easy to get by a Stonethrowing clan or tribe
> of
> hominids. And once a wolf den is raided and the babies stolen they
> would
> be too small to eat until after they had grown up around the Early
> Human
> campsite where they wandered no further than the dumpsite. The
> imprinting
> of baby wolves on humans is one of the greatest imprintings (perhaps
> the
> greatest) to be found in all of animal kingdom. So the imprinting
> becames
> a Natural Fence to keep the wolf nearby to the campsite and once
> grown up
> then would catch the hungry eye of the Early Humans or perhaps even
> Hominids and the wolf eaten.
>
>
> This domestication of the wolf was the first assured food supply.
>
>
> What would be the second domesticated animal after the Wolf? Probably
> the
> cat. I suppose some cultures today still eat cat meat. What would be
> the
> third domesticated animal? I believe the order goes by the ability
> to
> Imprint and thus form a Natural Environmental Fence where the animal
> seems to not wander off into the wild. So the dog is first and the
> cat is
> second, then what is third? Is it the sheep or cattle or some
> herbivore?
>
>
> Can someone tell me which Imprints greater on humans-- is it the
> sheep
> family or the cattle family??
>
>
> Archimedes Plutonium
> whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
> of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
>
> --- end posting my old posts on dog domestication ---
>
>

Maybe I can answer my own question from rereading the above and with
some experience
with animals as pets. The geese or ducks have a huge imprinting
behaviour, and so after the
wolf dog domestication and after the cat domestication for eating by
early humans, I suspect
a bird species like geese or ducks were third in line. Chickens do not
hang around enough, so I think chickens were further down the line in
domestication. I think the order goes with the most
strongest imprinting because early humans had no fencing, so it
mattered greatly on keeping the animal around the campsite.

Archimedes Plutonium
http://www.iw.net/~a_plutonium/
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
From: RichTravsky on 25 Jul 2010 23:27
pete wrote:
> Archimedes Plutonium wrote:
>
> > Maybe I can answer my own question from rereading the above and with
> > some experience
> > with animals as pets. The geese or ducks have a huge imprinting
> > behaviour, and so after the
> > wolf dog domestication and after the cat domestication for eating by
> > early humans, I suspect
> > a bird species like geese or ducks were third in line. Chickens do not
> > hang around enough,
>
> That depends on whether or not you're keeping your chickens
> for the purpose of eating their eggs.

I suspect that they'd be kept for more than one reason - meat, eggs, feathers...

> > so I think chickens were further down the line in
> > domestication.
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