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From: Jonathan Gardner on 2 Feb 2010 16:35
On Feb 2, 12:40 pm, Xah Lee <xah...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> (12:12:16 PM) xahlee: is hash={} and hash.clean() identical?
>

I think you mean hash.clear() instead of hash.clean()

The answer is that "hash = {}" will create a new dict and assign it to
"hash", while "hash.clear()" simply guts the dict that "hash" is
pointing to.

In the end, both will result in "has" pointing to an empty dict.

However, if you had something else pointing to what "hash" was
pointing to, they will no longer be pointing to the same, empty hash
after "hash = {}" is run.

>>> a = b = {1:2}
>>> a
{1: 2}
>>> b
{1: 2}
>>> a.clear()
>>> a
{}
>>> b
{}
>>> a = b = {1:2}
>>> a = {}
>>> a
{}
>>> b
{1: 2}
From: Stephen Thorne on 4 Feb 2010 20:13
On Feb 5, 8:26 am, Xah Lee <xah...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I appreciate that you taking this more seriously than normal
> newsgroups postings. In fact, for this complaint, the response you
> made is all i asked for.
>
> <trolling cruft snipped>

I am taking this as seriously as all the articles you have posted to
usenet.

Stephen.
From: Stephen Thorne on 4 Feb 2010 20:58
On Feb 5, 9:02 am, Steve Holden <st...(a)holdenweb.com> wrote:
> > • The list of ban'd person's names, the reason for banning, and the
> > name of admin who ban'd them, should be public. (irc already provides
> > means for this that allows admins to annotate in the ban list.) In
> > particular, if you are going to ban someone by ip address, make sure
> > the person's handle (or preferably real life name), be listed together
> > with it. (again, this needs not elaborate. A single sentence will do,
> > e.g. “repeatedly asking same question”, “continously raising
> > controversial issues”, “refused to use paste bin when requested” will
> > do. Again, be as precise in description as possible. For example,
> > “ban'd for trolling”, “annoying others”, are not a meaningful reason.)
>
> This is perhaps a little formal for something that (as far as I know)
> happens less than once a month. I am reluctant to start up any kind of
> bureaucracy around bannings unless they become too frequent (in which
> case your suggestions above seem reasonable).

The current banlist lists 258 names. According to my logs there have
been 95 masks added to this list and 44 removals since October. This
is approximately 23 a month, or 3 every 4 days. 11 ops were active in
this action during this period.

For reference, this is the 4th largest IRC channel on freenode
according to http://searchirc.com/search.php?SCHANS=1&SSORT=SIZE&N=freenode
and the other large channels weigh in with 298 (gentoo), 9
(archlinux), 14 (##C++), 280 (#ubuntu), 109 (#debian).

We are hardly exceptional in the size of our list of people we have
excluded from the IRC community.

On discussion with #archlinux it seems that the reason archlinux has
so few on their list is because they use chanserv's AKICK feature,
which means the name isn't kept in the IRC client accessable banlist,
and is only put there temporarily when the excluded user returns by
chanserv.

Stephen.
From: Steve Holden on 4 Feb 2010 21:09
Stephen Thorne wrote:
> On Feb 5, 9:02 am, Steve Holden <st...(a)holdenweb.com> wrote:
>>> � The list of ban'd person's names, the reason for banning, and the
>>> name of admin who ban'd them, should be public. (irc already provides
>>> means for this that allows admins to annotate in the ban list.) In
>>> particular, if you are going to ban someone by ip address, make sure
>>> the person's handle (or preferably real life name), be listed together
>>> with it. (again, this needs not elaborate. A single sentence will do,
>>> e.g. �repeatedly asking same question�, �continously raising
>>> controversial issues�, �refused to use paste bin when requested� will
>>> do. Again, be as precise in description as possible. For example,
>>> �ban'd for trolling�, �annoying others�, are not a meaningful reason.)
>> This is perhaps a little formal for something that (as far as I know)
>> happens less than once a month. I am reluctant to start up any kind of
>> bureaucracy around bannings unless they become too frequent (in which
>> case your suggestions above seem reasonable).
>
> The current banlist lists 258 names. According to my logs there have
> been 95 masks added to this list and 44 removals since October. This
> is approximately 23 a month, or 3 every 4 days. 11 ops were active in
> this action during this period.
>
> For reference, this is the 4th largest IRC channel on freenode
> according to http://searchirc.com/search.php?SCHANS=1&SSORT=SIZE&N=freenode
> and the other large channels weigh in with 298 (gentoo), 9
> (archlinux), 14 (##C++), 280 (#ubuntu), 109 (#debian).
>
> We are hardly exceptional in the size of our list of people we have
> excluded from the IRC community.
>
> On discussion with #archlinux it seems that the reason archlinux has
> so few on their list is because they use chanserv's AKICK feature,
> which means the name isn't kept in the IRC client accessable banlist,
> and is only put there temporarily when the excluded user returns by
> chanserv.
>
Thanks, Stephen.

It's fairly obvious I am not an active IRC user, isn't it?

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010 http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS: http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/

From: Ron Adam on 6 Feb 2010 14:03


Xah Lee wrote:

> For anyone reading this thread and interested in my opinions, i have
> written many essays related to this and netiquette. Many of which
> detail other similar incidences that i personally experienced, such as
> freenode's irc ban in #emacs channel. If you are interested, they can
> be found on my website, search for “ban xah lee”.

Xah,

Often (in the past) most of your posts have come across as complaints or
ones pointing out problems or comparisons of the negative sort. Your
overall negative tone is just one of the reasons you get labeled a troll.

I suggest you try to be less confrontational and more positive. Use your
expertise and intelligence to help others but don't be offended if they
don't agree with you. There's more than one way to do almost everything
and sometimes the best way for "a person" to do it is the way that person
is able to grasp it.

Regards,
Ron

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