qooxdoo trouble
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From: rf on 1 Aug 2010 21:46 "David Mark" <dmark.cinsoft(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:112f3013-ecd8-4752-bf6f-3fbc31ac1964(a)p11g2000prf.googlegroups.com... >> Love the logic, Rob! Down with the 5%ers! > But you didn't get the comparison. The basic gist is that 5% is a > significant percentage of the population. Consider that 5% is about the percentage of the worlds population who live in the U S of A :-)
From: RobG on 1 Aug 2010 22:25 On Aug 2, 10:35 am, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > RobG wrote: > > On Aug 2, 3:38 am, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> David Mark wrote: > >>> On Jul 31, 6:00 pm, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> David Mark wrote: > >>>>> On Jul 31, 2:36 pm, Nisse Engström <news.NOSPAM.id...(a)luden.se> wrote: > >>>>>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:13:13 -0400, Kenneth Tilton wrote: > >>>>>>> http://teamalgebra.com/ > >>>>>> Apparently, I have a flaky keyboard... > >>>>> That's as maybe, but the culprit here is likely Kenny's flaky app. > >>>>>> When I type "g=mc2==" on the [unbookmarkable tab], > >>>>> That I don't mind as I don't think tabbed interfaces should mimic > >>>>> navigation. They should persist their state though (e.g. with > >>>>> cookies, local storage, etc.) > >>>>>> I get > >>>>>> "G0MC200" (and the "2" also triggers a browser shortcut). > >>>>>> And there are heaps of other peculiarities on that site. > >>>>> Not unsurprising and it will require debugging a meg of dubious JS to > >>>>> track them down. > >>>> Let's see what the browser/engine is first. > >>> I already told you. > >>>> Team qooxdoo seems to have > >>>> run up the white flag on Opera key events. > >>> They can't even make it work *with* browser sniffing? Some team > >>> you've got there. :( > >>>> My investors (me) are > >>>> prepared to lose that market. > >>> Odd for European developers to give up on a browser that is very > >>> popular in Europe. Lately it has gotten a boost from MS offering it > >>> as an IE alternative. > >> Yeah, it's going through the roof: > > >> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp > > >> 2.1% and dropping from a high of 2.4 in December, 2008. Be still my > >> beating heart. Glad I checked before seeing if I could make it work. > > > The comment was about *Europe*, where Opera has about 5%[1] use. > > 5%? If they need help with Algebra, they can fire up FireFox. Here's some more 5%ers for you: touch devices. Your site is completely useless, it doesn't recognise touches in the editable areas, and even if it did, likely the keyboard won't appear because the device doesn't see it as an editable area. The scroll bars don't work, nor does the usual two-finger scroll in scrolling divs, so if content requires scrolling, it can't be accessed. Pressing the blue buttons does nothing, no hints about what keys to press as is indicated by the text. There are likely other issues. No doubt you'll lament that Qooxdoo doesn't support touch devices yet, but again had you used simple HTML for UI components instead of those supplied by Qooxdoo likely it wouldn't have been an issue. In contrast, other complex sites I use (such as banking and share trading) work just fine on iPhone and iPad, and they've done nothing special to support them, probably because they stayed with basic functionality and HTML enhanced by script where suitable. They didn't try to build the entire interface using script. I wonder how your site goes on Android touch devices? > > Given > > that is nearly the same number of people who are left-handed, do you > > propose telling them to go away too? > > Love the logic, Rob! Down with the 5%ers! Indeed. It's your logic to dismiss groups that represent less than a certain percentage of potential users, not mine. Also note that it is your choice of development platform that excludes them (and many others), not any technical deficiencies in their choice of user agent. > > Your site is still a "train wreck" in Safari, many buttons don't > > appear, the tying tutorial is hit and miss. > > Works for me in Safari on Windows* and the Mac. And iCab on the Mac and > Chrome on Ubuntu. I'll post some links to screen shots later. -- Rob
From: David Mark on 1 Aug 2010 22:34 On Aug 1, 10:25 pm, RobG <rg...(a)iinet.net.au> wrote: > On Aug 2, 10:35 am, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > RobG wrote: > > > On Aug 2, 3:38 am, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >> David Mark wrote: > > >>> On Jul 31, 6:00 pm, Kenneth Tilton <kentil...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>> David Mark wrote: > > >>>>> On Jul 31, 2:36 pm, Nisse Engström <news.NOSPAM.id...(a)luden.se> wrote: > > >>>>>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:13:13 -0400, Kenneth Tilton wrote: > > >>>>>>> http://teamalgebra.com/ > > >>>>>> Apparently, I have a flaky keyboard... > > >>>>> That's as maybe, but the culprit here is likely Kenny's flaky app.. > > >>>>>> When I type "g=mc2==" on the [unbookmarkable tab], > > >>>>> That I don't mind as I don't think tabbed interfaces should mimic > > >>>>> navigation. They should persist their state though (e.g. with > > >>>>> cookies, local storage, etc.) > > >>>>>> I get > > >>>>>> "G0MC200" (and the "2" also triggers a browser shortcut). > > >>>>>> And there are heaps of other peculiarities on that site. > > >>>>> Not unsurprising and it will require debugging a meg of dubious JS to > > >>>>> track them down. > > >>>> Let's see what the browser/engine is first. > > >>> I already told you. > > >>>> Team qooxdoo seems to have > > >>>> run up the white flag on Opera key events. > > >>> They can't even make it work *with* browser sniffing? Some team > > >>> you've got there. :( > > >>>> My investors (me) are > > >>>> prepared to lose that market. > > >>> Odd for European developers to give up on a browser that is very > > >>> popular in Europe. Lately it has gotten a boost from MS offering it > > >>> as an IE alternative. > > >> Yeah, it's going through the roof: > > > >> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp > > > >> 2.1% and dropping from a high of 2.4 in December, 2008. Be still my > > >> beating heart. Glad I checked before seeing if I could make it work. > > > > The comment was about *Europe*, where Opera has about 5%[1] use. > > > 5%? If they need help with Algebra, they can fire up FireFox. > > Here's some more 5%ers for you: touch devices. Your site is completely > useless, it doesn't recognise touches in the editable areas, and even > if it did, likely the keyboard won't appear because the device doesn't > see it as an editable area. > > The scroll bars don't work, nor does the usual two-finger scroll in > scrolling divs, so if content requires scrolling, it can't be > accessed. > > Pressing the blue buttons does nothing, no hints about what keys to > press as is indicated by the text. There are likely other issues. > > No doubt you'll lament that Qooxdoo doesn't support touch devices yet, > but again had you used simple HTML for UI components instead of those > supplied by Qooxdoo likely it wouldn't have been an issue. > > In contrast, other complex sites I use (such as banking and share > trading) work just fine on iPhone and iPad, and they've done nothing > special to support them, probably because they stayed with basic > functionality and HTML enhanced by script where suitable. They didn't > try to build the entire interface using script. > > I wonder how your site goes on Android touch devices? > > > > Given > > > that is nearly the same number of people who are left-handed, do you > > > propose telling them to go away too? > > > Love the logic, Rob! Down with the 5%ers! > > Indeed. It's your logic to dismiss groups that represent less than a > certain percentage of potential users, not mine. Also note that it is > your choice of development platform that excludes them (and many > others), not any technical deficiencies in their choice of user agent. > > > > Your site is still a "train wreck" in Safari, many buttons don't > > > appear, the tying tutorial is hit and miss. > > > Works for me in Safari on Windows* and the Mac. And iCab on the Mac and > > Chrome on Ubuntu. > > I'll post some links to screen shots later. > Much later, please. After the children have gone to bed. I'm assuming they are pretty gruesome.
From: Kenneth Tilton on 2 Aug 2010 07:26 David Mark wrote: > But you didn't get the comparison. The basic gist is that 5% is a > significant percentage of the population. Think business, not coverage. Also cost/benefit. er, and retail. > >> >> >>> Your site is still a "train wreck" in Safari, many buttons don't >>> appear, the tying tutorial is hit and miss. >> Works for me in Safari on Windows* and the Mac. And iCab on the Mac and >> Chrome on Ubuntu. > > You are falling into the trap of assuming that everyone has the > identical setup. Nope, I was just saying, it works for me. A response of the same thoroughness and quality and worth as the report. > And you didn't even ask (or specify) the versions of > those browsers. Just cutting my losses: setup info is not offered up front in this genius NG by people that know better so I have to think they are not meant as serious reports. Reminds me of the guy who reported a bug in the Algebra engine I could not reproduce and who just disappeared when his report was questioned. It would be an impressive bug given that the Algebra engine uses numerical methods to sanity check its symbolic work, so it almost looks like a deliberate mis-report. Taking some of you with a grain of salt these days. > > As with most aspiring Web app developers, you are in way over your > head (and sinking fast). glub-glub. kt -- http://www.stuckonalgebra.com "The best Algebra tutorial program I have seen... in a class by itself." Macworld
From: MarkHaniford on 2 Aug 2010 08:07
....and don't forget about the people using Lynx, and the people using IE4, and the people with Javascript turned off, and the people that don't have internet. Kenny, they're significant. Don't deny them. |