volume control balanced line
in [Live Sound]
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From: Hamm Guitars on 20 Jan 2007 00:34 So why not control the volume at the unbalanced (guitar) end? You just want to add a variable pad. "Snappy" <snappy(a)tiscali.nl> wrote in message news:45B06E92.2000406(a)tiscali.nl... > Geoff schreef: >> asdf wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> forgive me if this has been asked before: >>> >>> is it possible to place a vol. pot meter in a low impedance (1K, >>> microphone level), balanced line. It should be a stereo pot.meter in >>> order to be able to attenuate both lines simultaneously, but I'm >>> puzzled about its value. >>> Any ideas? Thanks a lot, >> >> Not something that would normally be done. What is your purpose, and >> what is the mic working into ? >> >> geoff > > Thanks so far, it would have been wiser to explain what is the reason for > asking. > > I built a mini DI-box into an electric guitar to change unbalanced into > balanced and to reduce the impedance significantly. Works like a charm, > very fine sound and I'm able to go directly into a mic.preamp. Just > advantages so far. But now I miss the possibility to alter the volume on > the guitar, hence my question: how to put a vol.pot meter into a bal.-low > impedance line. > Thanks again, > > Arie
From: Snappy on 20 Jan 2007 02:20 Geoff schreef: > Snappy wrote: >> Phil Allison schreef: >>> "Snappy >>> >>>> I built a mini DI-box into an electric guitar to change unbalanced >>>> into balanced and to reduce the impedance significantly. Works like >>>> a charm, very fine sound and I'm able to go directly into a >>>> mic.preamp. Just advantages so far. But now I miss the possibility >>>> to alter the volume on the guitar, >>> >>> ** Why did you remove the original volume control on the guitar and >>> why not put it back ? >>> >>> There is a lot you have not explained. >>> ........ Phil >> In order to keep the lead from the pick up as short as possible and to >> avoid putting in another component in the chain that might affect the >> quality of the signal, I removed all the controls in the guitar. >> Hope that helps, >> > > It all seems incredibly misguided. What makes your requirements so > stringent that what is good enough (if not actually necessary) for > everybody else, is not good enough for you ? > > And the whole concept of getting such a pure guitar signal into a mic preamp > also goes totally against what everybody(?) elle tries to acheive, where the > overall sound includes and amp and speakers. You will likely be getting > such a useless signal that after your mic preamp you will then need to > severely butcher the signal in order to get something actually usable - > which makes the whole excersize just a little bit pointless. > geoff That's all nonsense Geoff: give these samples a listen if you will and judge from what you hear. I'm certainly not like everybody else and I hope you are neither since that would mean I (and the rest of mankind) were like you ... http://home.tiscali.nl/prolingua/ Ciao, Arie
From: Snappy on 20 Jan 2007 02:26 Good point, I'll give that a try too. I tried to get the signal out of the guitar as clean as possible: there are a zillion gadgets available if it comes to alter the tone after the guitar itself, but I wanted to start off with a pure tone. That's the whole purpose of this exercise. Have a listen to this (without the pot. meter though): http://home.tiscali.nl/prolingua/ Ciao, Arie Hamm Guitars wrote: > So why not control the volume at the unbalanced (guitar) end? You just want > to add a variable pad. >>> asdf wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> forgive me if this has been asked before: >>>> >>>> is it possible to place a vol. pot meter in a low impedance (1K, >>>> microphone level), balanced line. It should be a stereo pot.meter in >>>> order to be able to attenuate both lines simultaneously, but I'm >>>> puzzled about its value. >>>> Any ideas? Thanks a lot, >>> Not something that would normally be done. What is your purpose, and >>> what is the mic working into ? >>> >>> geoff >> Thanks so far, it would have been wiser to explain what is the reason for >> asking. >> >> I built a mini DI-box into an electric guitar to change unbalanced into >> balanced and to reduce the impedance significantly. Works like a charm, >> very fine sound and I'm able to go directly into a mic.preamp. Just >> advantages so far. But now I miss the possibility to alter the volume on >> the guitar, hence my question: how to put a vol.pot meter into a bal.-low >> impedance line. >> Thanks again, >> Arie
From: Hamm Guitars on 20 Jan 2007 14:11 O.K., I see what you are after. You are a "straight wire with gain" kind of guy. Padding on either side of the DI shouldn't make that much of a difference, at least not one that I could hear, and putting the pad on the unbalanced side is pretty much exactly like putting the volume control back on the guitar - although it is allot easier than trying to put a variable pad on the balanced side, which would require a precision dual pot. In the end you are trying to reduce your signal without altering the frequency response from the pickup. Anything that you add to the circuit will change the impedance of the circuit and trying to counter balance those effects are somewhat futile as they will also effect tone. Impedance is frequency dependant this is why adding components affects your tone in the first place. If you are dead set against adding a high quality, high value pot back onto the guitar to attenuate the level, then I suggest that you use a different method of attenuating the signal - try moving the pickup further away from the strings or drop a few cotton balls into the guitar. If you feel that you are loosing too much sustain or low end, add some mass to your headstock to try to get back to where you want to be. You can see that in either case, there are compromises that will effect your tone you just have to choose one that you can live with. The guitar is going to sound a little different on every console that it is plugged into regardless of what you do, just as it sounds different in every room that you play it in. Live sound is not a controlled atmosphere, as recording studios are, so going this route you are going to end up with a guitar that sounds good, but you won't really be able to take it anywhere. Andy "Snappy" <snappy(a)tiscali.nl> wrote in message news:45B1C43B.2090604(a)tiscali.nl... > Good point, I'll give that a try too. I tried to get the signal out of the > guitar as clean as possible: there are a zillion gadgets available if it > comes to alter the tone after the guitar itself, but I wanted to start off > with a pure tone. That's the whole purpose of this exercise. > Have a listen to this (without the pot. meter though): > > http://home.tiscali.nl/prolingua/ > > Ciao, Arie > > > Hamm Guitars wrote: >> So why not control the volume at the unbalanced (guitar) end? You just >> want to add a variable pad. > > >>>> asdf wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> forgive me if this has been asked before: >>>>> >>>>> is it possible to place a vol. pot meter in a low impedance (1K, >>>>> microphone level), balanced line. It should be a stereo pot.meter in >>>>> order to be able to attenuate both lines simultaneously, but I'm >>>>> puzzled about its value. >>>>> Any ideas? Thanks a lot, >>>> Not something that would normally be done. What is your purpose, and >>>> what is the mic working into ? >>>> >>>> geoff >>> Thanks so far, it would have been wiser to explain what is the reason >>> for asking. >>> >>> I built a mini DI-box into an electric guitar to change unbalanced into >>> balanced and to reduce the impedance significantly. Works like a charm, >>> very fine sound and I'm able to go directly into a mic.preamp. Just >>> advantages so far. But now I miss the possibility to alter the volume on >>> the guitar, hence my question: how to put a vol.pot meter into a >>> bal.-low impedance line. >>> Thanks again, >>> Arie
From: Phil Allison on 20 Jan 2007 18:36
"Hamm Guitars" > > I see what you are after. You are a "straight wire with gain" kind of guy. > > Padding on either side of the DI shouldn't make that much of a difference, > at least not one that I could hear, and putting the pad on the unbalanced > side is pretty much exactly like putting the volume control back on the > guitar - although it is allot easier than trying to put a variable pad on > the balanced side, which would require a precision dual pot. ** Not true. A single gang, low value pot wired across the transformer's output is the best way - assuming there is no grounded centre tap. But in general, the BEST way to feed an electric guitar into a balanced mic input is to use an * ACTIVE * DI unit with FET input. The jack lead from the guitar to the DI unit may be kept very short if the DI is worn ( ie on a belt) by the player. The OP's issues with pots on his guitar affecting tone etc are the RESULT of his using a transformer instead of an active DI. ........ Phil |