what is the life of a console
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From: Ron on 9 Jan 2010 09:05 On 09/01/2010 13:53, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: > "Ron"<ron(a)lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message > news:PIGdnRkyAdvW_9XWnZ2dnUVZ8hydnZ2d(a)bt.com... >> On 08/01/2010 23:23, Arny Krueger wrote: >>> "Ron"<ron(a)lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message >>> news:Ju6dnaWwQ7HZ1trWnZ2dnUVZ8rqdnZ2d(a)bt.com >>> >>>> Does the team think that an analogue desk might have a >>>> longer life than a digital, or do pots and switches wear >>>> out faster than displays and lead free solderised boards? >>> >>> Not the actual comparison. For example, the faders used on many digital >>> boards have resistive (around 10K) from which their position is >>> digitized. >>> The signal won't be lost if one gets intermittent, but setting exact >>> levels >>> may be a little strange. There are also plenty of switches in a digital >>> console, but again they affect control voltages, not actual signals. >>> >>> ROHS affects analog consoles and ICs pretty much the same way it affects >>> digital consoles and IC. >> >> Indeed, but not generally with equipment say 10/15 years old built before >> the dreaded lead free was dreampt up. >> >>> >>> Of course there are usually far fewer controls on a digital console for >>> its >>> size, so they are more likely to actually wear out from use, but is less >>> likely to gum up from not being used. >>> >>> >> >> Absolutely, There are fewer rotary pots, but individually, they get used >> more, of course it would be easy to use very high quality pots - even >> custom made - as there's only a (relative) handful of them. >> >> They may even use rotary encoders in place of resistive pots? I don't >> know. >> >> That was my point about the quality of manufacture, at the moment most >> digital desks are high value items and made by companies who have pride in >> their reputations and don't skimp on sockets, pots, switches etc. I bet >> there`s not many Behringer digital desks still in perfect working order. >> >> Ron(UK) >> > not many desks in perfect working order after a year in service regardless > of make , cost or heritage, unless they have been repaired > you are trying to make a connection that just doesn't exist IMO > every thing breaks, 200K$ xl8's have failures reported, within months of > delivery > in order to get the return on investment repaidr is the ONLY option > with a 600$ desk it very well could have earned you dozens of times its cost > before it fails making repair only one of several options > nobody buys a 60$ desk planning on decades of daily service. > I still have a 'perfect" 3216 > it never failed , my ls9 needed a factory overhaul within a year(yamaha > picked up the tab) to return it to perfect > I simply can not see how you avoid the return in investment and the reason > equipment gets depreciated in accounting facts of life > > you want to have a desk you will keep"forever" buy a xl8, but it will see > just as much, if not more bench time as a 3216 > buy a tool to do a job, even axes need to be sharpened! whenthe tool is > worn out, get rid of it > chances are yyou will have earned several dozen times the cost of the 3216 > before it is worn out where as you would be lucky to EVER earn the cost of > the xl8 during its life time > george >> > > I aint superstitious, but I`m wary of tempting providence by talking about the reliability of the desks I use ;)
From: George's Pro Sound Co. on 9 Jan 2010 09:17 "Ron" <ron(a)lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message news:6ZCdndT5zN6uENXWnZ2dnUVZ8vednZ2d(a)bt.com... > On 09/01/2010 13:53, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: >> "Ron"<ron(a)lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message >> news:PIGdnRkyAdvW_9XWnZ2dnUVZ8hydnZ2d(a)bt.com... >>> On 08/01/2010 23:23, Arny Krueger wrote: >>>> "Ron"<ron(a)lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message >>>> news:Ju6dnaWwQ7HZ1trWnZ2dnUVZ8rqdnZ2d(a)bt.com >>>> >>>>> Does the team think that an analogue desk might have a >>>>> longer life than a digital, or do pots and switches wear >>>>> out faster than displays and lead free solderised boards? >>>> >>>> Not the actual comparison. For example, the faders used on many digital >>>> boards have resistive (around 10K) from which their position is >>>> digitized. >>>> The signal won't be lost if one gets intermittent, but setting exact >>>> levels >>>> may be a little strange. There are also plenty of switches in a digital >>>> console, but again they affect control voltages, not actual signals. >>>> >>>> ROHS affects analog consoles and ICs pretty much the same way it >>>> affects >>>> digital consoles and IC. >>> >>> Indeed, but not generally with equipment say 10/15 years old built >>> before >>> the dreaded lead free was dreampt up. >>> >>>> >>>> Of course there are usually far fewer controls on a digital console for >>>> its >>>> size, so they are more likely to actually wear out from use, but is >>>> less >>>> likely to gum up from not being used. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Absolutely, There are fewer rotary pots, but individually, they get used >>> more, of course it would be easy to use very high quality pots - even >>> custom made - as there's only a (relative) handful of them. >>> >>> They may even use rotary encoders in place of resistive pots? I don't >>> know. >>> >>> That was my point about the quality of manufacture, at the moment most >>> digital desks are high value items and made by companies who have pride >>> in >>> their reputations and don't skimp on sockets, pots, switches etc. I bet >>> there`s not many Behringer digital desks still in perfect working order. >>> >>> Ron(UK) >>> >> not many desks in perfect working order after a year in service >> regardless >> of make , cost or heritage, unless they have been repaired >> you are trying to make a connection that just doesn't exist IMO >> every thing breaks, 200K$ xl8's have failures reported, within months of >> delivery >> in order to get the return on investment repaidr is the ONLY option >> with a 600$ desk it very well could have earned you dozens of times its >> cost >> before it fails making repair only one of several options >> nobody buys a 60$ desk planning on decades of daily service. >> I still have a 'perfect" 3216 >> it never failed , my ls9 needed a factory overhaul within a year(yamaha >> picked up the tab) to return it to perfect >> I simply can not see how you avoid the return in investment and the >> reason >> equipment gets depreciated in accounting facts of life >> >> you want to have a desk you will keep"forever" buy a xl8, but it will see >> just as much, if not more bench time as a 3216 >> buy a tool to do a job, even axes need to be sharpened! whenthe tool is >> worn out, get rid of it >> chances are yyou will have earned several dozen times the cost of the >> 3216 >> before it is worn out where as you would be lucky to EVER earn the cost >> of >> the xl8 during its life time >> george >>> >> >> > > I aint superstitious, but I`m wary of tempting providence by talking about > the reliability of the desks I use ;) it is just stuff ron, no shame in it breaking, it is just a means to a end that end is earning a living for me if that end was showing off all the fancy shitI could buy I would be into golf , fly fishing or hot rods george
From: Ron on 9 Jan 2010 09:23 On 09/01/2010 13:57, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: > Ron , I just bought another small desk, a yamaha 2 input something , I don't > even know the model number but it was 500$ > shuld Iplan on a fixed lifetime based on time, or a lifetime based on return > on investment based on number of rentals > as a business person that is aeasy answer > I do not get emotional about gear, my inventory is constantly in flux > you can actually use gear for almost free is you > > A. are buying it right > and > B.sell it off after a few uses > george > > Well that's the right way to run a business, buy it, use it, sell it off before it loses too much value. I tend to sell on my used equipment into installs or situations where I can still keep an eye on it. I can offer a good deal on a package and know that the gear is in good condition and will provide the new owner with value for money. I recently provided a school with some virtually new radio mikes and headsets, they made money for me for a few months then were moved on so yeah, if effect, they cost me nothing and helped pay the bills. I never bother about whether one particular individual piece of kit pays for itself or not, there`s a much bigger picture to consider. I don't do dry hire, so my equipment is in general in very good condition.
From: Ron on 9 Jan 2010 09:24 On 09/01/2010 14:17, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: > "Ron"<ron(a)lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message > news:6ZCdndT5zN6uENXWnZ2dnUVZ8vednZ2d(a)bt.com... >> On 09/01/2010 13:53, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: >>> "Ron"<ron(a)lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message >>> news:PIGdnRkyAdvW_9XWnZ2dnUVZ8hydnZ2d(a)bt.com... >>>> On 08/01/2010 23:23, Arny Krueger wrote: >>>>> "Ron"<ron(a)lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:Ju6dnaWwQ7HZ1trWnZ2dnUVZ8rqdnZ2d(a)bt.com >>>>> >>>>>> Does the team think that an analogue desk might have a >>>>>> longer life than a digital, or do pots and switches wear >>>>>> out faster than displays and lead free solderised boards? >>>>> >>>>> Not the actual comparison. For example, the faders used on many digital >>>>> boards have resistive (around 10K) from which their position is >>>>> digitized. >>>>> The signal won't be lost if one gets intermittent, but setting exact >>>>> levels >>>>> may be a little strange. There are also plenty of switches in a digital >>>>> console, but again they affect control voltages, not actual signals. >>>>> >>>>> ROHS affects analog consoles and ICs pretty much the same way it >>>>> affects >>>>> digital consoles and IC. >>>> >>>> Indeed, but not generally with equipment say 10/15 years old built >>>> before >>>> the dreaded lead free was dreampt up. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Of course there are usually far fewer controls on a digital console for >>>>> its >>>>> size, so they are more likely to actually wear out from use, but is >>>>> less >>>>> likely to gum up from not being used. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Absolutely, There are fewer rotary pots, but individually, they get used >>>> more, of course it would be easy to use very high quality pots - even >>>> custom made - as there's only a (relative) handful of them. >>>> >>>> They may even use rotary encoders in place of resistive pots? I don't >>>> know. >>>> >>>> That was my point about the quality of manufacture, at the moment most >>>> digital desks are high value items and made by companies who have pride >>>> in >>>> their reputations and don't skimp on sockets, pots, switches etc. I bet >>>> there`s not many Behringer digital desks still in perfect working order. >>>> >>>> Ron(UK) >>>> >>> not many desks in perfect working order after a year in service >>> regardless >>> of make , cost or heritage, unless they have been repaired >>> you are trying to make a connection that just doesn't exist IMO >>> every thing breaks, 200K$ xl8's have failures reported, within months of >>> delivery >>> in order to get the return on investment repaidr is the ONLY option >>> with a 600$ desk it very well could have earned you dozens of times its >>> cost >>> before it fails making repair only one of several options >>> nobody buys a 60$ desk planning on decades of daily service. >>> I still have a 'perfect" 3216 >>> it never failed , my ls9 needed a factory overhaul within a year(yamaha >>> picked up the tab) to return it to perfect >>> I simply can not see how you avoid the return in investment and the >>> reason >>> equipment gets depreciated in accounting facts of life >>> >>> you want to have a desk you will keep"forever" buy a xl8, but it will see >>> just as much, if not more bench time as a 3216 >>> buy a tool to do a job, even axes need to be sharpened! whenthe tool is >>> worn out, get rid of it >>> chances are yyou will have earned several dozen times the cost of the >>> 3216 >>> before it is worn out where as you would be lucky to EVER earn the cost >>> of >>> the xl8 during its life time >>> george >>>> >>> >>> >> >> I aint superstitious, but I`m wary of tempting providence by talking about >> the reliability of the desks I use ;) > > it is just stuff ron, no shame in it breaking, it is just a means to a end > that end is earning a living for me > if that end was showing off all the fancy shitI could buy I would be into > golf , fly fishing or hot rods > george > > I`m a bit jealous of that Mando though...
From: Ron on 9 Jan 2010 09:26
On 09/01/2010 14:01, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: > "George's Pro Sound Co."<bmoas(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:r4KdncXunL_4FtXWnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d(a)earthlink.com... >> Ron , I just bought another small desk, a yamaha 2 input something > > sorry that was 20 input analouge with compressors built in on the first 8 > mic ins > george > > That would perhaps be one of the MG series, they are surprisingly good for the money. How do you rate the built in compressors? Ron |