what is the life of a console
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From: bob urz on 13 Jan 2010 11:45 Ron wrote: > On 13/01/2010 15:18, Sean Conolly wrote: >> "Arny Krueger"<arnyk(a)hotpop.com> wrote in message >> news:Rq6dnaLc6bw3KtDWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d(a)giganews.com... >>> "Sean Conolly"<sjconolly_98(a)yaaho.com> wrote in message >>> news:hijb9p$ph0$1(a)news.eternal-september.org >>> >>>> At what point does it become a 'resistive encoder' ? >>> >>> A potentiometer encodes changes in shaft position as changes in >>> resistance. It also encodes the angle of a shaft as a resistance. > > A variable resistor doesn't 'encode' anything. > >>> >>> The pots on the faders of digital consoles encode the position of the >>> fader as a resistance. > > No they don't 'encode' anything > >> >> I see a big difference between the two cases. >> >> The digital encoder is is actually changing the output to a numeric >> value, >> which a processor reads - i.e. decodes. With a regular pot there is no >> decoding, the change in resistance is applied directly to the analog >> signal. >> To say that's 'encoding' the position of the shaft is like saying that >> that >> a latch on a door encodes the position of the door knob. You could say >> anything that had both cause and effect was encoding. > > At least a door latch is digital - either open or closed ;) > >> >> Makes no sense to me, and I can't think of any engineers I've worked >> with in >> the last 25 years who would try to make such a claim. So going back to >> your >> original statement: >> >> "I guess you aren't aware of the fact that there have been consoles with >> linear faders based on rotary resistive encoders, AKA regular >> potentiometers." >> >> ... that is correct - and I'm still not aware of any and I don't think >> you >> are either. You just tossed in the word encoder for your own reasons. >> Most >> people would say it was plain BS, but YMMV. > > I have a couple of interesting old faders, one is a Penny & Giles > optical in which the slider (actually a quadrant) rotates a tinted glass > between a lamp and a photocell. I guess you might call it rotary at a > pinch, but it ain't no 'encoder' > > The other is a strange device where a linear slider moves a rack which > revolves a pinion on a normal potentiometer (much like the workings of > a CryBaby) That ain't an 'encoder' either. This one came out of some > ancient valve amp from the late 50`s, Phillips IIRC. > > Ron > > I have a pile of old motorized faders out of DMP-7's (remember that old dog?) Linear resistance fader, motor, belt and gears. either the wipers got flaky, the motor drive was stiff or the belts slipped. No intelligence. all of the voltage division to figure out positions and levels were in the electronics. Some day will have the blue tooth brain interface and we will get rid of mechanical hand operated interfaces all together. And consoles made out of transparent aluminum. Beam me up please.... bob
From: Arny Krueger on 13 Jan 2010 12:38 "Sean Conolly" <sjconolly_98(a)yaaho.com> wrote in message news:hiko7c$l6$1(a)news.eternal-september.org > "Arny Krueger" <arnyk(a)hotpop.com> wrote in message > news:Rq6dnaLc6bw3KtDWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d(a)giganews.com... >> "Sean Conolly" <sjconolly_98(a)yaaho.com> wrote in message >> news:hijb9p$ph0$1(a)news.eternal-september.org >> >>> At what point does it become a 'resistive encoder' ? >> >> A potentiometer encodes changes in shaft position as >> changes in resistance. It also encodes the angle of a >> shaft as a resistance. The pots on the faders of digital consoles encode >> the >> position of the fader as a resistance. > > I see a big difference between the two cases. > The digital encoder is is actually changing the output to > a numeric value, which a processor reads - i.e. decodes. You then misunderstand how the digital encoders in digital consoles work. The rotary encoders send out pulses that are converted to a numeric value in the console's control processor. The linear encoders have a resistor whose resistance is converted to a numeric value in the console's control processor. These numeric values are applied to DSPs which process the signal(s) in the digital domain. > With a regular pot there is no decoding, the change in > resistance is applied directly to the analog signal. Not true in digital consoles which is the topic being discussed. Attenuation is applied to the analog signal after it was digitized.
From: Arny Krueger on 13 Jan 2010 12:41 "George's Pro Sound Co." <bmoas(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:m_OdnV0Etu3WVtDWnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d(a)earthlink.com > you might as well keep it forever, there is no residual > value to a 5 year old o2r >>> for , average resell price of that desk today is >>> around 500$ How many times do I have to tell you George, that our console is an 02R96?
From: George's Pro Sound Co. on 13 Jan 2010 13:58 "Arny Krueger" <arnyk(a)hotpop.com> wrote in message news:voadnZ1yg7damNPWnZ2dnUVZ_uGdnZ2d(a)giganews.com... > "George's Pro Sound Co." <bmoas(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:m_OdnV0Etu3WVtDWnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d(a)earthlink.com > >> you might as well keep it forever, there is no residual >> value to a 5 year old o2r > >>>> for , average resell price of that desk today is >>>> around 500$ > > How many times do I have to tell you George, that our console is an > 02R96? why did you cut out the part where I restated the current selling price of 5 year old o2r96's as 1800$ I guess you are either blind or as stupid as your posts make you out to be g
From: Bob Howes on 15 Jan 2010 18:36
"Joe Kotroczo" <kotroczo(a)mac.com> wrote in message news:C77357A5.AC0E6%kotroczo(a)mac.com... > On 12/01/2010 23:02, in article hiirib$3du$1(a)news.eternal-september.org, > "Phil Jones" <Phil(a)phildo.net> wrote: > >> "Joe Kotroczo" <kotroczo(a)mac.com> wrote in message >> news:C7712148.ABF89%kotroczo(a)mac.com... >>> On 08/01/2010 16:12, in article Ju6dnaWwQ7HZ1trWnZ2dnUVZ8rqdnZ2d(a)bt.com, >>> "Ron" <ron(a)lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote: >>> (...) >>>> >>>> Does the team think that an analogue desk might have a longer life than >>>> a digital, or do pots and switches wear out faster than displays and >>>> lead free solderised boards? >>> >>> Pab Boothroyd was touring last year with a Midas Pro40. >> >> With a PRO6 alongside it !!! > > My point was that the Pro40 is still working after 25 years on the road. > They refurbished it, yes. But will a Pro6 still be usable, or even > refurbishable, in 25 years? I doubt it. > > By choosing to mix on what essentially are computers, we also chose the > much > shorter life-spans of computers. Nowadays, computers are obsolete after > 3-5 > years. The same will apply to digital mixers. > > I'm not saying that's good or bad, I'm just saying that's something to > factor into your business plan. > > > -- > Joe Kotroczo kotroczo(a)mac.com > Exactly. The local theatre where I do most of my freelancing replaced their H2000 with a Pro6 about nine months ago. At the time it was replaced, the 12ish year old H2000 was "working perfectly" but this was simply because every time there was a fault, a module would be swapped/replaced. Such problems were happening more and more often to the point where it was more economic to simply buy a new desk. However, I think the management will be in for a bit of a shock if they expect to be able to keep the Pro6 a long as the analogue desk--or do repairs by module swaps as easily and cheaply. I really like mixing on the Pro6--it suits the theatre world very nicely--but I do have major concerns about the throwaway world we are now in. Bob |